Do Epic Shit

Coaching Or Conning: The Truth About Credibility in Mentorship

• Colleen Basinski & Kimberly Neill • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Tired of loud gurus selling empty promises? We’re pulling back the curtain on the coaching industry and showing you how to tell the difference between real mentorship and well-produced theater. As working agents and team leaders, we’ve been on every side of the table—coached, coached others, and built systems that help new and experienced agents grow without burning out. What we’ve learned is blunt: credibility starts with production and proof, but real coaching goes further. It’s pattern recognition forged from contracts, client emotions, and market swings, not just catchy quotes.

We dig into practical ways to vet a coach before you trust them, from verifying history across relevant lanes to testing for transferability and real-world judgment. We share wins, misses, and the expensive programs that taught us exactly what not to buy. You’ll hear how we built a 12-week onboarding track, why recorded call reviews outperform generic scripts, and how newer agents can earn credibility fast by previewing homes and stacking small, smart reps. We break down motivation versus transformation, show why accountability beats hype, and explain how coachability multiplies results—for anyone willing to do the work.

We also unpack the trainer versus coach debate through a real estate lens: trainers can transfer knowledge, but in a business that touches money, homes, and emotions, experience isn’t optional. Our own coaching style blends tough truth with real care: one of us drives straight to the how, the other unpacks the why. Together, it’s a model that helps agents think clearly, act decisively, and build duplicatable systems that last. If you’re serious about growth, you’ll walk away with a sharper filter for choosing mentors, a blueprint for rapid implementation, and a reminder that real coaches don’t sell you themselves—they help you find yourself.

Enjoyed the conversation? Follow the show, share it with a teammate who needs stronger mentorship, and leave a quick review to tell us your biggest coaching win or worst coaching regret. DM us your questions and stories—we might feature them next time.

💡 Lessons we’ve learned about balancing it all—sometimes successfully, sometimes… not.

If you’re out here trying to DO EPIC SH*T, this one’s for YOU. Hit play, tag a friend, and let’s do this thing together! 👇🔥

💡 Listen now on: Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music & APPLE Podcasts!

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SPEAKER_01:

I would listen to a car salesman before I'd listen to half these coaches I'm seeing right now today on social media.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. I mean, there's some real and I gotta call it the way it is. There's some real fake frauds out there. Hey friends, welcome back to Do Epic Shit. Real talk, real estate, real life. I'm Colleen Basinski.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm Kim Neal. And today we're diving into something that's been bubbling for a while. The coaching world.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. This'll be good. It's gonna be a good one. Whether you're a brand new agent, a seasoned broker, or a leader building a team, chances are you've seen a flood of experts popping up online lately. Some are amazing, some are not. Yeah, you could say that again. So we're asking the question coaching or conning? The truth about credibility and mentorship. Huh. What makes a great coach? How you can tell who's the real deal and who's just performing.

SPEAKER_01:

Ooh, well, we've both been coached. We've coached others and we've seen it all. From life-changing mentors to full-blown frauds. Oh gosh. Yeah, we've seen some.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, oh, we're gonna dig in deep on this one because I've got some stuff to say. Yeah, me too. I think we both have to buckle up. This one's gonna be a little spicy, a little honest, and totally worth it. I've got some notes here, so we make sure we get all the goodies.

SPEAKER_01:

I want to miss any goodies. Got some good ones. And some have been popping up lately. I feel like we've been seeing more and more.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and some of the ones now are like triggering me to remember some of the past worlds. And I'm like, ah, mm-hmm. So here's a real story. So a guy we used to work with uh once decided that his buyer's agent, who was still pretty green figuring it out, should be our coach. I say our like it's mine. I wasn't actually selling, but was yours and a few other agents. But he that she should be the coach for a group of yellows.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yep. For for the whole office. Yeah. Um, so she'd only closed a few deals, handled some Zillow leads. She was still early in her career. Love the agent, good, good person. Um, but suddenly she's supposed to be coaching us on conversion and mindset. I think I looked at you. You looked at at Kristen and was like, hell no. Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_00:

I think you exactly said, oh hell I did. Yeah, right? And nothing against her. Absolutely. She was smart and learning fast. Yeah, but she lived through enough of it yet to start teaching it. You bet. I think that's not coaching. That's like putting the cart before the horse. Like I think people want to be, you know, they get a few things under the belt and all of a sudden they want to write a book, they want to be a coach, they want to be a trainer.

SPEAKER_01:

I I feel like the coach and trainer is that's what every nobody wants to work anymore. I think they think it's like the easy way out or something. Absolutely. I'm gonna be a trainer, I'm gonna be the coach, I'm gonna get this certificate, and then I'm gonna fly around the world and coach. It's like, wait, what? And then you go in and you look, and they have one house that they sold or four. It's mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I would agree with you. And I think that's, you know, a couple of few instances like that we realize not everyone who calls themselves is a coach is actually one. I remember I was on a um, I was on a trip. I was in, I was in Texas actually, because we used to go to Texas for training a lot. And uh I distinctly remember being on a bus. We might have been carting from one venue to another for something. And uh this guy's just spewing all these ideas, and and you know, there's these people, they're like hanging on there. Oh, and how do you do that? And I and I'm like, I'm like a trust but verify kind of person. I wanna, I wanna know, like, you sound good, but have you actually walked the walk? Sure, right? So I go back and I look up his numbers, and this was um leadership coaching, this wasn't sales coaching on this particular guy. Sure. He hadn't recruited anybody, he'd only been like a team leader for like a couple of months, and he like everyone's looking at him like he's the expert, like he's the coach, and I'm like, what? And and so I think that was a key moment for me where I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna look stuff up. Now, I will give some grace in terms of, you know, not all production shows up on the like we have um market viewer and broker metrics and all those reports. Not all production shows up on there if you're doing a lot of new construction, you're doing off-market deals or whatever. You're licensed somewhere else. Like I'm in three states. You can pull my my broker metrics, you're not gonna pull all my production. Sure. Uh, some of my stuff's under bars comes under me. Like, you know, all my stuff's not gonna come up under me. So I give some grace where that's at. But if you got one deal showing up there or repeated over a cycle of years, that's exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

I was just gonna say that we can all have a bad year, maybe something happened, take some time off, and you've got five deals, but it's year after year after year, and they've only been doing it for six years. Yeah, yeah. Again, mind blowing completely.

SPEAKER_00:

Because not everyone who can talk about success has actually done it.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think, and I get it, like maybe some people are good at teaching or you know, maybe explaining, but I feel in this business, when I come in here and I'm like, oh my God, the lender just told me blah, blah, blah, blah. If you're not versed in what I'm talking about, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00:

Just well, and I and we're gonna get into this a little bit. And I think there's gonna be people out there that are gonna say, well, coaching is different than training or teaching or your broker for questions. And I'm still gonna push back on that because I think this industry is so niche that like you still need to have um some time in the trenches, and some not just time in the trenches where you haven't done anything, but you have to have some at bats under your belt.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

I agree. And coaching isn't just hype and high fives, it's not a pep rally, it's accountability, it's truth and growth.

SPEAKER_01:

I've had coaches who've told me things that I didn't want to hear. Um, and that's actually what changed me. Well, good coaching, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Good coaching stretches you. Bad coaching just tells you what you want to hear, sells you validation, puts you up on a pedestal and makes you feel good about yourself. A great coach isn't your hype girl, they're your mirror.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's the whole theme today: coaching or conning. The truth and credibility in mentorship, because it's time we separate the real ones from the loud ones.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that you said it that way though, the real ones from the loud ones, because there are people that just toot their own harm, and social media has done a really good job of masking that, where people like put their and and there's nothing wrong with like building your brand and building your advertising, your image. But there's a difference between building your brand and being a fraud.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I'm just going over the things in my head and the people that I'm watching and seeing, and yeah, it's a lot. I know it's wild. What there are people out there coaching top producers who've sold what two homes, four homes?

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Oh my gosh, we talk about this all the time. And listen, I'm not saying you have to sell 500 homes to be credible, but if you've never actually lived the grind, how do you lead someone through it?

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Coaching isn't just asking questions, it's pattern recognitions, and you can't recognize patterns if you never lived through them. And that's what we just said. Oh true.

SPEAKER_00:

I will say also, um, true mentorship blends both experience and empathy. There's a difference between book smart and battle tests.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. That's I truly believe that. Like that's it's hard for me to grasp and listen to someone. Not that I don't I don't think you're a good teacher, or I feel like in order to be relatable, we have to know the same things or at least connect and relate.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel like a lot of them don't. I heard this once. The best coaches have earned scars, not just certifications. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

That's perfect, actually.

SPEAKER_00:

Coaching without credibility is just performance. You can't lead people through a storm if you've never been rained on. That's so true. Right? Yeah. So that's the whole question we're gonna ask today. Can you coach what you've never done? If you've never walked the path, how can you guide someone down it? So I have a question for you, Cam. Okay. What's the first red flag that tells you that a coach isn't qualified? How raw do we want to get? Yeah, raw, girl. Not raw. Even on our merch, it says do epic shit. Real and raw. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

For me, and I can speak for me, it's production. I want to know what they did. What is their history? Yeah. What is their history? Please tell me what you've done, where you come from.

SPEAKER_00:

And I will say for me, production doesn't necessarily need to be a hundred percent in that exact field. It could be in a parallel lane, sure, but it needs to be there. Okay, so you haven't sold a hundred homes, but um, were you in mortgage and you did a hundred mortgages, or like I I would listen to someone coaching on that, like because it's a parallel lane, right? Like I think that there's very um very similar paths in an industry or even in a maybe if you sold a hundred cars, you could sell me a hundred homes. I don't know. There's a little bit different because that's where you have uh customers coming into your store versus we have to go out and visit customers. So I don't know, maybe if you're going door-to-door sales or doing some some other type of sales like that.

SPEAKER_01:

I would listen to somebody who said, I sold 500 cars and I had I'm the you know, so they know how to close. Absolutely. So they they know the sales term terminology, they know the they know the um life cycle of a sale. Absolutely. I would listen to a car salesman before I'd listen to half these coaches I'm seeing right now today on social media. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, for sure. I mean, there's some real and I gotta call it the way it is. There's some real fake frauds out there.

SPEAKER_01:

And half the time burns my crow. Okay, we want to get real, half of them are, and I'm thinking one in particular, I can't even understand what he's saying. It's like I'm like, so get chicken.

SPEAKER_00:

What the fuck? Well, yeah, because I think they're spewing out words that they don't even understand the meaning of, and they're they're like um stitching things together without actually understanding because they're trying to regurgitate something they read in a book or that they heard.

SPEAKER_01:

That's exactly what I'm listening to. And don't get me wrong, two minutes in, and I'm done. Glazed over to an end. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yeah, it's um I would say though, on the flip side, so you said production is your first red flag that tells you so credibility, I guess. Here's what I would caution on that. Here's my like production, absolutely. I want to know that you've done it, that you've walked the walk, but also I want to hear the story of how you built it. Sure. Because, you know, there's this saying, even a blind squirrel catches a nut once in a while, right? Yeah. So what if that blind squirrel walked into a whole um bag of nuts in a nut store and got them all? Sure. Right. Like, so there are people that just fumbled across what they've done, and it wasn't something that they can duplicate or they can teach someone or that they can tell. So there's a few people that I know that have an incredible business, but they kind of got lucky, you know, they fell on an investor or a builder or um whatever, and then they can't really explain it or articulate it or teach someone else how to do it. They they talk a good talk, but are you thinking of a couple of people that I like? I I know exactly who you're talking about. I mean, I've coached some of these people after, and I when you see behind the curtain, you're like, oh boy, uh how did you do the business you did? Mm-hmm. For sure. Right? So so I would say production, yes, with a caveat that like it has to be something that's duplicatable, or that you have to understand like the psychology of how to help someone through something.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's super important. So who's gonna teach me to do what I do unless, you know, you you you kind of know what I'm doing? Like, I feel like for me, if you're gonna hold my attention and I'm gonna listen to you and I'm I'm gonna pay to go to one of your courses or one of your classes, I would hope that I can relate to you and that I can that that we have some kind of common bond. Not that you were taught in a class away in Texas and you're allowed to come home or you know, and and go around and teach it. We need to be on the same page.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

For me, anyway. No, no, I want to hear you. That's how I feel.

SPEAKER_00:

How about the next one?

SPEAKER_01:

Have we ever bought into a program that sounded great? And what did we learn?

SPEAKER_00:

So just because they have production doesn't mean that their coaching programs are actually coaching programs. I bought this one and it was like on how to onboard and get your agents off the 90-day start. You know, it's like, oh, because I I feel like that, you know, when you're busy, you're always looking for the shortcuts, right? So I'm like, oh, if I could just have a program that'll help me like get my agents, my new agents up and running faster and get them to into production faster. Like I was trying to um remove myself from that process because quite frankly, it's a lot of work. And yeah, you know, we're always looking for shortcuts. That's human nature. And I got it, I bought the program and I'm in the classes, and I'm like, this thing sucks. It literally sucks. And this person had a crap ton of production and like hundreds and hundreds of homes, um, had lots of agents on their team. And I'm like, this is garbage. I'm so glad that I didn't play full price. This person gave me a discount on it. Because if I had paid full price, I'd have been living. I mean, I still paid money. I've wasted money on so many things that I thought would be great um coaching programs or training programs, or just because I'm a consummate learner and I'm always pouring into myself. And I'm like, okay, well, if I can learn how to do this, then I can teach someone else and I could do, but man, that one, that one burned my whole. I was because you know, here I'm thinking, so then that's what actually caused me to go back and write. Remember the um the 12-week coaching program I wrote for new agents that come on board to our team? Because after that, I'm like, no, I'm writing this myself because this is, and maybe that's the control freak in me. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

No, because it was crap, right? It was crap, and we needed something.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I just feel like if you're putting your trust into me and you're coming to me to for your career, like this is your career, your livelihood, your family, your future, your goals. I owe it to you to give you everything I got as the coach. And I wanted to pour into these agents that were coming and joining us. That's why we didn't really recruit heavily when we first started our team either. The people that came to us were people that came to us organically. Like, um, they're like, hey, I want to join you. I'm like, I don't really know. And I'm like, and so I feel like now we're in a place because of how much we care and because we take it so serious. The the people that now I'm gonna jump off subject again a little bit. You have to want it too, and we're gonna get into that. Yeah, like you have to do the work. I can't do the work for you. But I feel like we're in a place now where we've got great systems, great courses that I've written and that you've co-written with me or taught with me. And we've got a great foundation to help coach not only new agents, but also experienced agents that are kind of just like looking to take it up, or even if they don't want to take it up, if they want to step back and have some of it work for you. Like I feel like if you're an agent who's grinding, grinding, grinding, we can help you grind less and do the same amount of production because that gets you balance of life back.

SPEAKER_01:

Look at the new agents that are following and doing, yeah, it will change the trajectory of their whole entire life and family. So, I mean, we're doing something.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think we're doing a few things right. That's funny because my next question is how can newer agents earn credibility fast? Production. Yeah, by doing it. Do the work, follow the things your coach tells you to do. Well, first vet their coach correctly, and then get into production. That's how you earn your credibility by going out there and doing it. It's why I tell new agents to preview homes. You don't you can't know what the market is until you've actually been in the market. I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_01:

Because until you've been in houses and looked at online, you don't know the difference between I mean, and it's such small things too, as much as like if you're a new agent, you haven't been out, you haven't looked at a home. How do you even open a lockbox? I I remember walking in, like, oh, how do I open this?

SPEAKER_00:

But aren't you because you've previewed enough homes and you and I say preview, you've shown enough homes. So the way a new agent would do the preview is um, don't you feel that you can look at pictures online and know when something's yes and when it's not? Because you've been physically in enough of them, you're like, that never looks like that. That's state, that's virtually staged, that's AI. And in today's day and age, are you want to waste someone's time or you want to get them the stuff that they need to get right? Or you can also tell when someone's taken really shitty photos and that's something your client should still see. What's the difference between motivation and transformation?

SPEAKER_01:

Hmm. Well, I think they go hand in hand a little bit. Um, I think you have to be motivated to um, for me, anyways, in order to transform, you have to be motivated.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because you're just not gonna Yeah, I think the motivation starts internally, the transformation shows up externally, but you can't have one without the other. Right. Which is what you just said.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Took the words right out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_00:

How do you test a coach before you trust me?

SPEAKER_01:

I knew you were kidding. I'm gonna ask you because um you're the skeptic. I I am such the skeptic, and I don't mean to be, but I feel like I am because I've I've You've been burned a few times. Yeah, and you know, all I gotta do is see something and I'm off the rails. Just because I've heard so much shit for so many years, and then I'm like, what? That's po are you kidding me? But, anyways, um, how do you test a coach before you trust them? I don't know. For me, I've I've burned through probably four or five in my career. You have to go if if you give me just the same number. What Kim, how many phone calls are you gonna make? How many people are you gonna visit? What are you gonna do? I can't do an I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I think what I'm hearing you say, and I know you well enough that I could probably answer this for you. So I think what I'm hearing you saying is someone who's just checking off boxes, as opposed to really listening to you and understanding you and guy and and really caring about where you're at and helping you go where you want to go.

SPEAKER_01:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah. But a little more finesse. But it is true, that is absolutely 100% true. Just checking off the boxes and paying you thousands of dollars for you. I could do that myself.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's not that's not really coaching. That's I mean, that an accountability partner can do that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's all I really need to. I mean, I think a coach really challenges the way you think and gets you to think outside the box a little bit, and not necessarily like doing things differently, but like out of the norm of how, because we get stuck in patterns and we tend to do things away because we've done them before. So a coach will recognize like if you have a pattern that's taking you down a negative path, or it's uh a pattern that's stopping or stunting your growth in your business or in your life or in your goals or whatever. I think they recognize those and they'll ask you questions to help you um self-discover and overcome those. Yeah. So let's talk about what great coaching actually is, because I've lived both sides of it. I've coached leaders nationwide through one of the largest real estate coaching platforms in the world, from California to New York, Louisiana to Wisconsin, Florida to Oklahoma, and even internationally in Turkey, Canada, and Portugal. I've coached new agents to hit six figures in their first year. I've helped leadership teams turn losses into profits. And I've built a business that's made over six figures as an agent and now lead a team of doing over a million in income this year, and it's not even overhead. Did you know we hit the$1 million income goal? Oh, did we? We did. Oh, something new. We should uh have a little celebration, uh, millionaire real estate celebration, right? That's pretty impressive. I know. But here's the truth coaching isn't about telling people what to do, it's about leading a person on a journey of self-discovery. Period. It's helping them take ownership of their goals and dreams and the path to get there. A great coach doesn't hand you the map, they sit down with you and help you draw it together and then help you identify the pitfalls or the pit holes, or what are they called? Uh, what are the podholes? Podholes. I couldn't think of it. You wouldn't think of that game pitfall. So was I. You literally, I when you were saying pit five, I was like, Do you remember that game? Yeah, yeah. But I mean, literally, that I mean, that is kind of what a coach does. They're helping you get from one end of the game to the other. And this game that we're in, it's called life. And it's our career and our families that are at stake. Yeah. So, I mean, a great coach is with you on that journey, and they're gonna help you and they're gonna guide you. But they're not gonna do it for you, but they're gonna give you the tools mentally, skill-wise, they're gonna equip you with what you need in your mindset and in your skills to get through it and to get where you need to go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the right coach for sure. Um, so what do you think actually makes a great coach? A great coach asks smart questions.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, come on. They know your goals, your dreams, and your why. They know what's important to your kids, your family. They understand your fears. They don't motivate you, they help you tap into what already motivates you because you can't motivate a person, you can only tap into what they already have that motivates them or what gets them fired up inside, and then put that out there for them to take a look at. A great coach shows up too. They listen, they hear what you're saying and what you're not saying. Also, sometimes the silence speaks louder than the words. Yep. Um, they see the gap between where you are and where you want to be, and they help you build a bridge. A great coach doesn't push you, they partner with you.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's the difference between guidance and gaslighting.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01:

One helps you find yourself, the other tries to sell you themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh many times have we seen that? And social media is just wrought, just absolutely wrought with that.

SPEAKER_01:

It's just, yeah. It's actually sad because it really did take away that whole like one of our agents here, and this is going off a little bit, that's okay, called me just last week and was like, you know, I really want to do that coaching program. I'm like, why? He's like, well, it's a different way from what I was taught back in the day. And it's really, you know, things have changed so much in the industry. And I was like, really? Are you serious? I I understood what he was saying because I mean it was all checking boxes, numbers, this, and it I guess this one was exactly what he said, uh, you know, um, how to tap into yourself. It was a different, you know, different type of coaching program. I think though, here might have been life coach.

SPEAKER_00:

I think sometimes though, here's what I'm gonna get comfortable while I talk about this part. Um people don't like I think the checking boxes thing is is really not the way to go. But I think sometimes they use the coach as an excuse for them not doing the work or putting in the effort or not, and sometimes they put in the hours, but they're afraid to face things like rejection or um overcoming obstacles.

SPEAKER_01:

Like this job is not easy. I was just gonna say, when when you just said about rejection, I think that brings something to mind. Like who likes to be rejected? Well, no, nobody, but I I feel like sometimes it's just part of the part of the process. I mean, I hate it too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I want people to like me. I was just saying to part earlier, I'm like, nobody wants to invite me anywhere, no one wants to do anything with me except Kim. They gotta have Kim. And I was just whining at him because the boys invited him to go do something boy. I was like, Oh, I didn't get invited. So but you know, but my point is, is like I felt bad. I felt rejected. I'm like, how come I wasn't invited to go do that? Yeah. So I think people, no one wants to be rejected. But at the same time, that's how you build up the muscle memory, it's how you build the skill, it's how you get better. We just talked about this in business planning, my business planning um the other day in the office, and um I made a it wasn't a joke really. I was actually talking about it. We're talking about like deals that fall off or deals that don't don't make it to the table, or you know, life's happens. And I said, Well, what's your percentage of fallout? So he definitely said, uh zero percent. I'm like, well, then you're not doing enough business. And he's like, Well, uh uh, blah, blah, blah, or whatever. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. Like, you have to build that rejection or the the deals dying or the fallout or whatever into your plan because it's bound to happen. It's part of life.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they were totally like, oh, and it was taking a bath, right? Yeah, and it was it was so not what they thought it was. Like, well, nobody rejects me, and I'm, you know, I I take, you know, nine out of ten of myself. What are you talking about? And it really it wasn't, it was so it was completely different. Never make mistakes. How do you learn? Right. And that I I don't think until after you explained it, then it was like like a light bulb moment, like, oh, I get it. Not more of a slap in the face. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a use of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

And as soon as I was able to articulate and go down that path, they were like, oh. But it was more of like, hey, this is how we learn and grow up. Sure. And so I think a great coach it is helping you along that journey. Let's talk about trainers versus coaches. Because you know, people are gonna have some things to say about that. We want to start with that one. Well, you know, some people are gonna say, well, that's what trainers do. Trainers can travel around and teach things they've uh learned or studied, even if they haven't actually sold real estate. What do you have to say about that?

SPEAKER_01:

So let me ask you this because you've been in all facets of it, really, what is the difference? I mean, I get so you have your trainers and you have your coaches. Trainer to me is like you're gonna help me, like you said, like a memory or muscle memory or whatever. Like when I think of trainer, I think of someone who's gonna sit there and they're supposed to be the hyper, the trainer, or the so I will tell you.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'll tell you this. So I've coached people where I've been in a one-on-one coaching relationship where we get on the phone every week and we go over their goals and we see where they're at in their business, and we we look for the gaps, sure, and then we figure out a way that they can overcome those gaps. And I don't tell them what they need to do. Sometimes, like, I'm gonna give them a nudge, right? Um, but other times I'm gonna ask them questions because here's the thing. Um, and I always use my my husband as an example in this, right? Like if I tell him to do something, he's like, oh, yeah, right, I'm gonna do that. But if I ask him a question and he thinks it's his idea, he's all over that shit, right? And I and I don't think he does it just to spite me. I think it's human nature, right? Like people want to follow their own ideas more than they want someone to tell them what to do. Okay. So that's like one of the uh core aspects of coaching, right? So it's like helping people self-discover so that they think it's their idea so that they can uh they can go down that path. Their subconscious then is more committed to the action because it was their idea. I gotcha. So they take ownership of it, right? So a coach, so I've been in one on one coaching relationships where I'm on the phone and I'm talking to people, and you know, we we see each other maybe um on Zoom calls. Or we get together once in a while. But then I've also traveled all over the country teaching and training courses, right? Some one-day courses, some half-day courses, some three-day workshops. I've taught hiring, training, leading and motivating, recruiting, sales, business planning life. I've taught all these things, right? And I will tell you, um, to me, your responsibility is the same either one. And a lot of people don't feel that way. They feel like, well, a trainer could just come in, drop their knowledge, and then leave. And I feel like you're really doing a disservice to the people that are in your class when you do that, because um they took the time out of their business, they took the their money to spend, to invest, to be there because they were hoping you could make an impact on them and their life in that day. Sure. Yeah, maybe it's not every week. Um, but I think that um in a business like real estate, it's dangerous when someone just teaches from a book instead of having been out in the field. I feel like I was a hundred times better trainer when I was traveling all over because I could talk the talk, I had walked the walk, I could share my personal stories, and I wasn't just following a script and reading off a script. When someone in the audience in the class would ask me a question, well, I've had this happen, or what happens here? I could speak authentically, sure, and from experience. Where someone who's just read out a book, they're like, go look, oh, well, it doesn't say what to do in that situation here, right? And so how do you like a feeling has to come from here? Yeah. Otherwise, why do I need to spend my money and go listen to you here to say it? I could just read the same book you read and I can learn it myself. At least that's how I feel about that. That's it, that's how I feel. And I know there's people out there say, well, a coach is different than a trainer. And uh, you know, a trainer transfers information, a coach transforms people, blah, blah, blah. Uh, trainers teach you what to do, coaches teach you how to think, like they'll say all that. But even great trainers in real estate should have some kind of boots on the ground credibility. I think so. This industry changes fast. Contracts, client emotions, market swings. And if you've never been to those trenches, your examples are empty. Great. And I will tell you that I feel like I'm a hundred times better coach to our agents right now, because I've been in the field the last two years, than the 15 years that I was um in the leadership role that I was in. And not that I wasn't a good coach to those people. I feel like I was co better at coaching other leaders at that time than I was at coaching agents because the market has shifted so dramatically. And I'm not saying like buyers' market, sellers' market. I'm saying in just the way business is done and the way people think and the exchange of information and all of that. And that's one of the reasons why I came to Rio, because I felt that the company that I was with was stale and they kept talking about being like an education-based and board-based company, but they did not have a lot of um young ideas in the forefront, or people, a common, it was a good algorithm or a combination of someone who had credibility who had done it before, um, or I say someone, people who have done it before, but then also had new, fresh ideas and were willing to always constantly evolve and change as the market changed. And I feel like the other company that I was with um maybe talked that, but I didn't see it happening. I felt like I every time, and Corey will say this too, that we would um try to implement a new idea, we'd get in trouble for implementing a new idea in our offices, and then six months later, they would come out with the same idea and tell everybody to get on board with it. And I was like, what? And Corey's like, we just did that six months ago, and we got in trouble for it, and now they're doing it. So I so I I don't know, I kind of went off tangent, but like I feel like that's an important part of this whole experience journey that like why I feel so strongly how I do about coaching and training and everything else. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, I guess uh there's room for both. Yeah, I think I would say Yeah, trainers educate from knowledge, coaches elevate from experience. But when you're in a business that deals with people's homes, money, and emotions, experience isn't optional. That's true. That's totally true. Yeah, it's the biggest, yeah. Um yeah, that's foundational for sure. I kind of lost off or got lost there for a minute. Yeah, talking about you know a money trail. Yeah, and not only that, like I feel like um, I mean, I know we're talking about this, but you know how and I didn't want to say passionate, but how I think because I've spent so much money over my career um going to classes. Well, you really invested in yourself at high school. I did. Um, and then I feel like it is such a slap in the face to me when I go back and look at things now or see people that I was teaching, or were sitting, and not that they can't be good at that, but but it's like you know, you know they're not a fraud.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so here's what I have there's someone out there right now that's traveling, podcasting, uh-huh, selling programs about being a a top producer coach, and you pull their numbers, and it's one house last year, maybe for the year before. Maybe on a good year, yeah. Yeah, and every time they pop up on social media, who are the two that get all riled up.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's you and bars, yeah, because it's infuriating. Yeah. All right, now what do you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm just saying, knowledge without practice isn't wisdom, it's theater.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, that is true.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, and there is a fine line between guidance and gaslighting.

SPEAKER_01:

That's true.

SPEAKER_00:

And I feel like those people that are out there selling themselves like that are gaslighting a lot of people. And quite frankly, I think it's fraud.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, look what just happened last week. Somebody was called out on it and nobody responded. Nobody wants to say anything about anything.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, and then there's another one. I was gonna say this one really gets Bart going. I love throwing Bart under the bus and he's not even here to defend himself. But there's that national trainer who's built an entire career teaching realtors, and I swear she's maybe sold one house ever in her career. Oh, and every time her name comes up, Bart's like, what?

SPEAKER_01:

He just like I say how's it happening? Oh my god, I can't believe it. Did anybody pull her numbers?

unknown:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like if you're a chef and you wrote a recipe and you've never tasted it. But you know what the crazy thing is, I don't think people know that. Well, they don't because they just she put up such a good, she's a marketer. Good for her. Yeah, which is great. Okay, I guess you could teach people marketing, maybe because you've marketed yourself. Yeah, but nothing else and how it relates into the real world.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, you should bring her in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh I think I'll pass. All right, so here's the lightning round we're gonna go through. I've got a good one here. So to paint the picture, this actually happens in every industry. Are you ready, Kim? I'm ready. Let's go. A personal trainer who's out of breath walking the water fountain, a marriage counselor whose healthiest relationship is with their cat, a financial advisor whose credit cards are maxed out. That's a good one. A chef teaching souffles while setting off the smoke alarm making toast. That's cute. A life coach still living in their parents' basement, a driving instructor who's never had a license, a dentist with no teeth. Would you want what if you walked in and this is the perfect example of what we're talking about? Okay, so I had to go to an emergency dentist. I'm totally skipping off here, but this I had to go to an emergency dentist because it was like Thanksgiving weekend, and I had like a tooth crack, and it was like a horror. It was like six years ago. You but yeah, it was Thanksgiving weekend, and I'm like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. And so the only person I could find was this guy over here, and I could talk about him because he's not there anymore on Wolf Road in Mokina. And I walk in and he looked like something out of like Iraqi horror pictures. He had the long coat like that, and he his teeth were all rotten, and he smelled like cigarette smoke. But I had no, I literally had no choice because I had the worst toothache, and like I let him drill it and take it out, and I never went back there. I I waited like three months or something, but it was horrifying, absolutely horrifying. Yeah, horrifying. And that's your dentist. Well, it was he was the dentist. Because it was like holiday again, short notice, blah blah blah. So there you go. That's an example. Uh a realtor who rats, a pilot whose only flight time is in a video game, uh, a vegan chef teaching barbecue ribs.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, actually, every one of those sounds ridiculous. Yeah, um, but that's what happens when people sell coaching without credibility. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I know we were trying to be funny in some of those because it is ridiculous. It is ridiculous. But at some point, experience has to enter. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, in terms of coaching styles, um, tough love versus nurture. Oh, how do Kim and I fit together in that? So I'm straight to the point, and Kim's more like the strategic empath. Um, for sure. Together it works. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think so. She's good at unpacking the why, and I'm already on to the how.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? Yeah, it's true. That's why we do work well together.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I think that's what good coaching is truth and care in the same conversation. The best coaches tell you the truth before the rest of the world does. Like they're gonna be the ones that tell you you have the spinach stuck in your teeth. Right? Like how when the rest of the world's just walking around pointing at you laughing, the coach is the one that's gonna tell you something, say, hey, come here. Yeah, you got a little spinach in your teeth. Let's let's work on that, right?

SPEAKER_01:

You know? Yep, or get to work. One of the coolest parts about our forward group is that the mentorship flows both ways. Oh, this is great. Our younger agents are thriving and we learn from them daily. And that business class that we had on Tuesday showed it. Their numbers, what they did from last year to this year, it was great to see that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, they bring new tech, fresh energy, and no ego. When they apply what we're teaching them and then they surpass our expectations, that's the goal. Like when your mentees start surpassing you, that's when you know you did it right. So as we bring some of our younger agents in the coming weeks, this is the standard we want to show. Mentorship grounded in experience and genuine care, not perfection, but credibility and consistency. And it's really what builds trust and creates growth. I will I love that you brought up that class last week. You know, um, some of the people that we're gonna be bringing on, uh like I'm gonna bring Corey on as a guest. I know he's gonna squirm and struggle the whole time. And you know what? That's a great coach putting you out of your comfort zone. But I mean, he's done an incredible job with his business this year. I mean, he's just literally alone.

SPEAKER_01:

And he is the perfect, he's so coachable, he's so hungry for knowledge. Like, and he asks everybody. It's not just one person's perspective or oh, it's everybody. What do you think? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00:

Both him and Katie will do over six figures this year, well over six figures this year. And I think they actually already have and they still have pennings going on. Yes, yeah. So they're both they're they're gonna be they're well over a hundred, yeah. I think they're both over 150 already. Yeah. So based on if I calculate the math backwards. So they're both over those numbers, which is awesome considering when Corey set his goals when we were in business planning last year. He said, Oh, he was a if I did 60, I'd be happy. I remember that. And I was like, bullshit, you'll do 60. Yeah, I remember and Katie last year did five transactions, and this year she'll do 20 plus. Yeah. And they'll both be vying for like, I mean, obviously, we've still done more production than them because we're established and you know, we have but I love that they they're plugging in, they're learning and listening and growing. If Katie calls me a hundred times, she calls me a hundred times. I don't care. Sure. And I'm like, you know this. And you know, coaching her and guiding her through it. And I love one of the things, and I'm sure they'll talk about this when we bring them on. One of the things I love that Corey does is he goes back and listens to my recorded conversations. I think that is so fun. I mean, what's like well, we play them, yeah. Um, and Kristen's come in for those too. So, like we do at least once a week. We come back and we play the phone conversations that we had so they can learn on like how did I how did I approach that conversation when the lead came in? And how did I get the appointment? And how you know, like, what do we go through that? And I'm okay being critiqued. Sometimes they're critiquing me too. I'm like, oh yeah, I really shit the bet on that one. Like, whatever. Um, but that's the thing is like we are coaching and mentoring them, but we're also open to improving ourselves. And I think good coaches never stop learning. I agree with that. Key takeaways. Well, coaching is a cheerleading, yeah, credibility matters, and coachability multiplies it. So let's go back to that. You can go back, you can have the best coach in the world, but if you're not coachable, none of it matters.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think we have one or two of you know, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00:

So I would say we have some that are.

SPEAKER_01:

But I think I and I don't mean to interrupt, but I think that's where you come in and you pull like sometimes I'm like, here she goes. It's the question after question after let's talk about that. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm like, oh, please just say it wasn't you on the week. Just answer. Well, I I I think there's two parts to that question. So before we before we wrap up to the key takeaways, I'm gonna go backwards a little bit. And it's not in our our guideline here. So that's the thing about us. It's real talk, real time. What you get, what you get. You never know what you're gonna get. Um, I think there's people that aren't coachable. You can have the best coach in the world and you're not coachable. You just think you know it all. And even if you say you don't know it all, but you act like you know it all, and you don't implement and you don't really take anything to hurt that you're hearing, that's not coachable. So, like, not defensive, not stuck, just open, right? But also, there's people that are coachable, but they just won't do the work. I'm like, so here's the thing Corey's in the office every day. Sure. If Katie's not in the office, I'm on the phone with her, she's in her home office working, I know what she's doing, she's on appointments, she's whatever. Like, I'm talking to them on the daily about like, and and not like I'm on the phone coaching them daily, but we have chat groups and we have, you know, we have different systems of accountability that we use. And I think you have to be coachable, you have to be willing to put in the work, and that combined with a great coach and a great mentor and a great uh system, you're unstoppable in this industry. I agree. Because there's not very many people out there that have the whole trifecta. The people who implement fast will grow fast. And the ones who just collect advice, they just kind of stay stuck. And they have all kinds of advice. Yeah, they've got really smart bookshelves, right? We always have that. Oh, you gotta you took that class 17 times.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I have trophies to prove it.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, but I mean, the people that you've been in with it, like people that you've taken a class with 17 times and they're still stuck selling four houses a year.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, yeah. What's the difference between you and them? You were coachable. Yeah. Even when you didn't like what I had to say, you took it to heart. Sometimes I told you stuff you didn't like.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't really I think too, when when you are in coaching or when you are um the one that's you know, being coached, you have to even you have to be open. I feel like you have to be open, you know, to because you say some stuff that, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

But also you knew that I had your best interest at heart.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And I and then you can watch people's, you know, like for me, when I was coming and and learning and and starting off, I would watch the other people before me. Like, look at them. Oh, they did that with that coach, or oh, this is what they were doing. This is what they so you were able to see that and watch that.

SPEAKER_00:

I I agree. And I'm gonna add a caveat to that. I think in this day and time that can be helpful, but it can also be dangerous because there's so much that has changed in how we do business and technology and um all of the things. And I think also, so I'm just gonna say this too, because we'll talk about this when Katie comes on. A great coach will also notice what your strengths are and help you tap into them. Like Katie was incredible on social media, but she never put any real estate stuff on social media. She only put like stuff that made people laugh and this and that. Yeah. I probably pounded her over the head with questions and pushing and and guiding her down that path for a while before she was willing to accept. And and that part of her business has exploded. I know. She's great. Because a great coach will also know what your strengths are and tap into that. But again, like you said, a coach can't outwork your unwillingness to change. Work means nothing if you refuse to move your feet. Those are the two things. You have to be coachable and you have to be willing to do the work. So you can vet your coach all you want. You could hire Tony Robbins. Oh, yeah. Or what's the um the guy that like Graham Cardone or any of those guys, right? Like you could hire them, but if you're not coachable and you're not willing to do the work, it doesn't matter. Yeah, I was just saying. You can hire me. If you're not coachable and you're not willing to do the work, it doesn't matter. Just pay me, right? All right, key takeaways.

SPEAKER_01:

Coaching isn't cheerleading? Yep. We said that. Coachability multiplies that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. Real coaches, real talk. That's what we're all about here. And that's what this business is all about. This is a good one. Yeah. So I just say be curious, be consistent, vet your coaches like you'd vet a contractor. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01:

If they've never held a hammer, they shouldn't build your foundation. That's actually a really good one. Well, DM us your best and worst coaching story. We might feature it next time. What do you think? I think that'd a great idea. I would love to hear something.

SPEAKER_00:

I would love to hear that too, because it can't be us. It just can't, it's got to be. I mean, we've got a lot of good ones, but I I love hearing from you guys. Like we've gotten some pretty interesting uh messages. So yeah, I'd love to expand on those. And so next time we're gonna bring on a few of our younger agents who are absolutely thriving under this model, and you'll see what real mentorship looks like in action. I and you can hear from them. So if you have questions you want us to ask them or things you want us to uncover with them, like just throw it out to us and we'll ask them. Isn't Dale in one or two years in? Yeah, we've got some good and successful young people that are just blowing it up. Katie, Corey, Dale, Kristen, like we've got some great successful agents that are just killing it. I've got a girl, Jackie, downstate that I'd love to bring on. She was able to quit her um six-figure government job to go full-time in real estate. So I uh I'd love to have her on too. So if there's questions you have specifically for these guys, um, we'd love to ask them live on the next session. So just DM us. And just remember coaching isn't about being perfect, it's about being proven, and that's where real growth starts. So if you like what you heard today, follow along. Uh, like, subscribe. We'd love to have you uh follow us, DM us your questions, and uh keep going out there and doing epic shit with us. See you later. Peace out.