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When Business Partners Become Backstabbers: Surviving the Heartbreak

• Colleen Basinski & Kimberly Neill • Season 1 • Episode 8

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The hardest truth about entrepreneurship isn't written in any business book. Your greatest heartbreaks won't come from lost deals or market downturns—they'll come from losing people you trusted completely.

In this raw, unfiltered conversation, Colleen and Kim pull back the curtain on the devastating reality of business friendship breakups and partner betrayals that cost them millions of dollars, triggered lawsuits, and left emotional scars deeper than any business failure could inflict. They share the gut-wrenching experience of watching friends and partners transform before their eyes when money and opportunity entered the equation.

"Money makes people do crazy shit," Kim explains. "If you have just an ounce of ugly in you, money amplifies that like a microscope." Both hosts reveal the warning signs they ignored, the gaslighting they endured, and the shocking moments of realization when they discovered the truth about people they considered family. From secret meetings plotting their demise to attempts to freeze company accounts on payroll day, these stories illuminate the darkest corners of entrepreneurship rarely discussed in public.

The conversation goes beyond just sharing war stories—it offers a roadmap for recovery. Colleen and Kim open up about how they navigated the wreckage of dissolved partnerships, protected innocent team members caught in the crossfire, and rebuilt their confidence and businesses from the ashes. Most importantly, they share how they maintained their integrity even when facing those who abandoned theirs.

For anyone who's experienced the unique pain of business betrayal—or fears they might—this episode provides both validation and hope. As Colleen powerfully states, "We lost businesses, we lost money, we lost people, but we never lost ourselves." Their message is clear: betrayal doesn't break you; it teaches you who you really are.

Subscribe to Do Epic Shit on Apple, Amazon, Spotify, or YouTube to join this honest conversation about surviving the friendship breakups nobody warns you about in business school.

💡 Lessons we’ve learned about balancing it all—sometimes successfully, sometimes… not.

If you’re out here trying to do EPIC SH*T, this one’s for YOU. Hit play, tag a friend, and let’s do this thing together! 👇

🎧 Listen now on Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music & APPLE Podcasts!

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🎙️ Hosted by: Colleen Basinski & Kimberly Neill

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Speaker 1:

We lost businesses, we lost money, we lost people, but we never lost ourselves. Welcome, welcome to Do Epic Shit. I'm Colleen Baczynski, I'm Kim Neal and we are here to talk about friendship breakups in business.

Speaker 2:

She's a good one. What no one talks about?

Speaker 1:

So our theme today is how to survive betrayal rebuild after being burned it's a good one. And protect your peace, while still showing up as a leader. It's a great one. So no one warns you that your biggest heartbreaks in business won't come from losing deals. They'll come from losing people.

Speaker 2:

Today we're talking about the ugly, unexpected side of entrepreneurship. When friendships go toxic, oh, very toxic, partners turn on you, oh, and they turn. And the people you trusted the most leave.

Speaker 1:

You got it this is a shit nobody talks about, but we will, absolutely, absolutely this is actually a good one.

Speaker 1:

It's a raw one, yeah, this is gonna gut me a little bit just talking about this one, I think so so we're gonna start out with the breakup you never saw coming and we didn't, and there's been a few like there's more than one we can talk about and I don't want to say that like I'm naive, because I would like to think that I'm not and I'm business savvy and that I think we have a wait.

Speaker 2:

I just hate to interrupt, but we have a special guest here with us today we do.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you mean a peanut gallery.

Speaker 2:

We do, we do, yeah, and he's over there shaking his head.

Speaker 1:

I think he lived through it too he had this uncanny knack of seeing things happen before they played out in real life, but it wasn't in the initial stages, it was right before it happened. So we were already in business with some people and then he was like this is happening. And I'm like no, it's not. I'm like you don't know what you're talking about, you're crazy.

Speaker 2:

And then lo and behold it literally played out like that.

Speaker 1:

I'm, we've had you. I think we're not going to name names. Absolutely, but we're going to talk about scenarios like how it feels when someone you thought was your ride or die flips on you. And when I say flip, I mean total 180. I mean Kim, you've had team members who have gone completely off the rails. Yeah, friends that you thought were friends that weren't. Because if your friends, this wouldn't have happened but you know what?

Speaker 1:

here's what I'll say, and this isn't in our paper. This is like just talking from the heart. Money makes people do crazy shit and someone who's good at their core can stay good at their core, but if you have just an ounce of ugly in you, money amplifies that like a microscope and I feel like it's all they justify it's justifiable when really it's not.

Speaker 1:

It's either right or wrong like oh well, it's okay, blah, blah. Or you know, this is what it takes to get ahead. And I will say that you know, business can be ruthless, right Like the business world in general is ruthless. We've heard corporate ladder is ruthless, but when it's your friend and you get in business together, you're doing it because you think it's going to be. That you can your back. I don't even have enough fingers to count them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you for sure.

Speaker 1:

Thanks For sure. Have you ever heard that there was that meme that said something about like. They're talking about me and I can't wait to see what they're going to say next. Like.

Speaker 2:

I can't wait to see what I do next right.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think for you the reason why group, you know you were in such a big group. Well, you have multiple businesses and you have multiple partners. In each business there's more opportunities for it to go sideways. And in real estate, I think we're in such a business with colleagues. The way we interact with each other and we hang out together it forces us to be friends with people that we might not ordinarily otherwise be friends with?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely not. I can name 20 that I wouldn't even be Good question.

Speaker 1:

I think there's a shock factor that happens. And then you go through the grief and the heartbreak and the what the f*** moments. I would say betrayal in this business hits just as hard as romantic heartbreak. You bet A hundred times over.

Speaker 2:

And it is almost one and the same. Because you're up at night, you're losing sleep.

Speaker 1:

You are non-functional for a while. You know what I mean. That those first couple days I can tell you that in a couple of the instances and we'll talk about these stories I went at least a week without eating and when I say without eating I mean nothing, and bart can attest to that like I literally would take a bite of food and I would get nauseous and I wouldn't be able to eat, and that went on for about five, six, seven days and then, like shit had to come and hit ahead right. So that betrayal, it hits hard and I would say also, as I think, as we're sitting here just like kind of just putting it out there, it also is because you spend more time with your work people than you do with your family.

Speaker 1:

A lot of times like think how many hours a week, okay, how many hours a day are you at? 12, 13, yeah, 16, 16, okay let's say you sleep eight hours a day, so you have 16 hours. You spend 10 hours at work.

Speaker 1:

You're spending more time with those work people than you are with your own family, I know so that that hurts or even if it's even even if it's eight and eight right, it's still equivalent like you're spending as much time. So you feel like and I know we've taken a lot of people in, whether it's our team or the businesses we own, whether it was our real estate businesses or our title businesses, even the coaching business, like all the things we had we would treat and Bart especially and I'm sure he'll pipe in over there like he treated people, like they were family, like there were some people that like he treated them like they were his kids, like his own children, and that like it's like taking a knife and just twisting it inside of you.

Speaker 1:

So, kim, let me ask you a question. Was there a moment you realized that you know, in one of these instances, this person is not who I thought they were?

Speaker 2:

Oh, this one's going to be good, absolutely, even now, when we talk about it Like even just me asking the question.

Speaker 1:

I could see your mannerism change.

Speaker 2:

There's so many people that you thought and then it's not that they're, I shouldn't even say that, yeah there's people I thought were good.

Speaker 1:

What did it feel like when you had that moment, when you realized ooh, this person's not.

Speaker 1:

It's very surface level I think part of that is is when you're as passionate about what you do as we are, like we care about the business, we care about the people, like when you get into this and you're taught okay, what's your why and how are you going to do this and I think about, like, paying it forward and creating opportunities. And the things I want to do for other people and this was a quote last episode or maybe a couple ago is when you want it for them more than they want it for themselves, like that's a reoccurring theme in what we talk about and you want it for them so bad and they're just there for a quick buck. You really feel it in your core and in your heart.

Speaker 2:

You invest time, you invest money, resources and even to the point where you know you're splitting money and giving and doing the most you can when you know that they just turn around and be like, yeah, bye.

Speaker 1:

Evil partnerships and burned bridges. I think you guys have brought them in. We've talked, at least on several episodes, about how important the circle is.

Speaker 2:

But if you think about it, how many years did you have to go through through businesses before that really became?

Speaker 1:

you know well, you let these people in your inner circle, initially, to begin with, like you go to conventions together, you have dinners together, you hang out together, you're in training classes together, you eat together, you drink together, you let them in and you're taught to be vulnerable so that you can motivate and inspire and have this reciprocal relationship. And then plot twist, conspiracies behind your back gaslighting oh, that was bad manipulation. Yeah, multi-million dollar lawsuits. That's why we're here, that's why I put my foot down. Yeah yeah business is closed.

Speaker 2:

friendships nuked like, like nuclear explosion which is that that's the part that hurts the most. I was just going to say I think that's the part where you're like whoa, like holy.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think too, there are people that were collateral damage that didn't need to be. I would agree with that.

Speaker 2:

I would agree.

Speaker 1:

That's where I hurt myself more, because I wanted to protect the people that needed to be protected so that they weren't collateral damage.

Speaker 2:

Well, here's the other thing. I really don't think those people know that so the biggest collateral damage was someone that works for us right now, oh Corey.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sweet little Corey, you know he's the sweetest kid.

Speaker 2:

Really to hear what people said about him. It was part of a lawsuit. Yeah, the kid won't even take a dollar. No, Like he won't.

Speaker 1:

Even he's the most kind, innocent. Did you see the post I made him about? Well, he shared a story and then I shared my opinion of that story about he had a client the other day. Listen to this. He had a client. Poor guy had day. Listen to this. He had a client. Poor guy out of place. Guy had a stroke. He's like I need. He calls cory. He's like I need to move back an area closer to my kids. I want to be near family. Family is the most important and and cory's like no, no, you got to get healthy, you got to get strong. The guy took like eight months, learned how to walk again, went through physical therapy. He's like cory, I'm ready, I'm ready. So cory like looks high and low, fine guy at place didn't have a very big budget. I mean this like this is not a multi-million, this is a little like 130 000 condo. This guy goes. So when you think about he's not doing it for the money, right, right yeah so he gets him to closing.

Speaker 1:

The guy doesn't have anyone to bring him to the bank to get the money for the down payment and closing costs. So go, cory goes, and he picks him up the morning of, drives him to the bank to get his money for his cashier's check or wire or whatever it is. The bank's grilling him like this is a scam. You're a fraud. What are you doing here with this older man? Blah, blah, blah. They had to call the attorneys. They called the title company.

Speaker 2:

I did not hear this part, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

It went like crazy. And so Corey's like, no, I'm just the realtor, he's like, and the bank's like well, realtors, don't pick up people and drive them to the bank and do this. He's like, well, I do so, then he takes them. They finally get like the clearance. They're like, okay, the guy couldn't get his own money because they thought like yeah.

Speaker 1:

So then Corey takes them to the walkthrough, drives them to the final walkthrough. They do the final walkthrough, then Corey takes them to the closing, they do the closing, then Corey don't do, or like that's. So I just had to brag on him because that's the heart that I've known him, of having his entire life. I've known the kid since he was 10 years old and that's just who he is. So when we talk about collateral damage, it's heartbreaking that him and his family, and so I did my best to put my shield up to protect him as much as I could, where it cost me tens of thousands of dollars out of my pocket to hire attorneys to protect him and other things like that, because of the things that were said about him and the things that were done to him and everything else. So that's an interesting one. So I have a note here how do you navigate the wreckage when a partnership dissolves in chaos? How do you navigate the wreckage? I think to let it blow up and burn.

Speaker 1:

I had business partners that called the bank to try and have bank accounts frozen on a Friday afternoon when it was payroll day, and which wasn't going to impact me, like I wasn't getting all of the employees when you talk about collateral damage, all of the employees would have not gotten paid and those people needed that money to feed their families, pay their mortgages, pay their car payment, put gas in their car. Fortunately, when you have so, here's how you navigate it. You have to have good relationships everywhere. Like your reputation matters, your relationships matter. I had a good enough relationship with our banker that the banker's like this doesn't sound right, something's not right here. What's going on, colleen? And I'm like, hey, blah, blah, blah, this is what's happening. And she's like okay, we'll give you some time to like get, get the attorneys together, get it figured out. And you know, obviously it's not indefinite. But those were kids, and I say kids, they were young adults but, I'm still responsible for them, right?

Speaker 1:

I needed to make sure you know. The office manager got paid, the receptionist got paid, the broker got paid, like all these people that wouldn't have gotten paid their payroll had I not had those relationships. So I think relationships matter a lot and that's how you navigate it. We've had people try to purposely break up our friendship over the years. Yeah, absolutely, and there was a period of time where we didn't maybe talk as much as we could have.

Speaker 2:

Never burned any bridges.

Speaker 1:

Never burned them. Us with each other.

Speaker 2:

No, never burned. No, but people try yeah, even some of the Hardcore try yeah. Like blaming me for stuff that some random other person did, like a lender. Yeah, what a piece of shit. What a biatch to try and look at you in the face and lie. Looked at me in the face, sat there and said what? Yeah, it's the same person that wasn't at the restaurant, that left with her husband the minute that she seen us well, yeah, when you see them out in public and they get up and leave mid-dinner and walk out there was, I will say this burning bridges and burning stuff down, ran into someone yeah, bart, ran into someone at Juul who tried to screw us, who tried to like, so they tried.

Speaker 1:

So this is another group. They tried to take our company and then go start a new company with the money from our company under a different LLC, but use our DBA, and then had our money to pay their startup costs. And did it illegally, without even being legally able to hold a broker's license in that state.

Speaker 1:

There's a whole lot to unpack there, but the person knows who they are and knows what they did. And we're in Jewel Shopping and they have a cart full of groceries and they see me and Bart and they just leave their cart and walk out. Don't tell me that's not guilt Cut off.

Speaker 1:

Swear to God, I can't say his name. No, you can't, and you'll have to leave and we'll have to start all over again. Yeah, but I think. So the lesson for our list. So like we're telling stories here, which is great, but I think the lessons are like how you navigate that and I think for me too, and we're talking about me a lot, but I know you have several of these stories like I well, I was just talking about one, I do on a smaller scale.

Speaker 2:

it doesn't matter, it doesn't hurt any less. It doesn no yeah.

Speaker 1:

Whether it's one person or a dozen people, it still hurts when someone tries to stick it to you. Yeah, especially when you think they're your friends. And then those are done.

Speaker 2:

And the friendship's gone forever. Yeah, like it's just done so which?

Speaker 1:

is hurtful and sad, I think for me also is when people try to kick you when you're down. Probably a lot of our listeners know, but not all that Like I lost. I lost my daughter in 2021. And some people decided that that was their opportunity, that they were going to step on top of me and push me down so they could get to their next level. Is anything I'm saying incorrect?

Speaker 1:

No, right, no I think you know I've heard the saying opportunity versus opportunist. And are they who are you looking at Like are you getting in business with? So we talked about this a couple weeks ago with teams. We talked about like, you want to hire people that are looking for an opportunity so you can create an opportunity. You can build something amazing together. But the real fine line is, are you hiring someone who wants to build something with you as an opportunity, or are they an opportunist who's looking to take advantage of a situation? And the first chance they get to take advantage of you, they will?

Speaker 2:

I probably said that first year I was in the business Like wow, everybody's looking for an opportunity. I felt like nobody wanted to put their nose to the grindstone and do what you had to do. It was always what can I get, what can I do, which leads to that mentality of let me step on you, Let me kick you when you're down. You know let me try to get ahead. Not everybody, but a lot.

Speaker 1:

It really causes you to create your circle very small, which is an oxymoron when you're talking about how to build a big business and bring a lot of people into your world.

Speaker 2:

It's a lot of shit. Yeah, we've seen a lot of shit.

Speaker 1:

Did you ignore any red flags at the time when you were bringing people into your world?

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I had a lot of people in my world.

Speaker 1:

Kim, I can think of at least three instances off the top of my head where you had someone that was really close to you and you got in business with them and it went sideways and they tried to go scorched earth on you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1:

And that's just me off the top of my head?

Speaker 2:

No, for sure. I had a couple people working with me.

Speaker 1:

you know that were on my team, or people that maybe you went to work with yeah, that wanted to be business partners yeah or even fucking imagine that or vendor partners even because? Because your vendors are as much a partner as anybody else. You're in a business relationship with those vendors when you choose to bring them in your world.

Speaker 2:

Stiffed, yeah, now that I think of several vendors yeah, and now that we're talking about, now that we're talking about it, I did yeah. Now that we're talking, about it.

Speaker 1:

I didn't yeah that is true. So did you ignore any red flags? You bet, so what were they? We can teach our listeners not to ignore those red flags.

Speaker 2:

I think, when they don't have a work ethic like you, when they and I hate to say it like this when I think substance abuse comes into play and you ignore that, like, oh, it's not that bad, we have a prime example of one of those in our history too, yeah, where we try, you know, and bart always wants to be like the knight in shining armor and help people and save people.

Speaker 1:

And I can think of two people off the top of my head and and I have a soft spot for that because I've had people- in my family that have gone through issues and you know addict can recover yeah and so, but when you have someone who is an alcoholic or an addict and you bring them into their business and maybe you don't necessarily know it, but you know it doesn't take very long to figure it out.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't take very long where you're like whoa, that's not right.

Speaker 1:

And you know what's interesting.

Speaker 1:

I think also in hindsight, looking at it creating a space where the other people in your world know it's okay to come to you with that information, because we got out of business with someone and I remember this and we were in business with them for a long time and they had a really bad drinking problem and Katie came to me later and said so Katie's obviously someone on our team and she said well, the first week I was there, this person said oh, we got to go buy supplies and they took the company card and went and bought booze. And Katie's like can you do that? And she's like oh, don't worry about it. And so I'm like katie, why didn't you ever say anything? She was like well, I was new to the team. I'm like but I've known you since you were a kid.

Speaker 1:

She's like yeah, but I didn't want to rock the boat so I think you have to create a space where you're very clear on your standards is the right world.

Speaker 2:

Or about what's allowed and what's not allowed. Yeah, what's allowed and what's not allowed yeah, I think you have to be very clear about that but I will say this Would you ever in a million years think no? Why does that even have to be a conversation? Well, In the norm. You wouldn't think that would be one of the rules when you're bringing somebody in, were you?

Speaker 1:

more angry or heartbroken.

Speaker 2:

Well you know I go through anger and then it's heartbreak.

Speaker 1:

So it's almost like all the stages of loss Of a relationship, yeah, of grief or whatever.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think of a relationship, yeah, like a grief or whatever. Well, I think it's anger at first, because you're like holy fuck, they did that, you motherfuckers.

Speaker 1:

Well, you, yeah, we was. Yes, bart lives in anger for a longer period of time than some of us yeah, like I feel like it was.

Speaker 2:

It's anger, like your first reaction, which they say anger is, you know, manifest.

Speaker 1:

I mean that's well it's one of the stages of grief. Yeah, it's a. It's, it's one of the stages of grief for sure.

Speaker 2:

So then you're, you is, you know, manifest. I mean that's hurt. Well, it's one of the stages of grief, yeah, it's one of the stages of grief, for sure. So then you're hurt, you know, after the dust settles and you're like, oh man, you know, and then it's acceptance, it's like, well, that friendship or that business portion is done, so go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1:

I mean pretty much.

Speaker 2:

So how do you handle it? Publicly or privately? I think my last falling out was I don't know. I think everybody knew but never wanted to say anything. I'm not very discreet either, like I don't give a fuck, like here's what happened. Yeah, he did this, she did that, and for me.

Speaker 1:

I always tried to keep it privately because I never want to be the one and I think for me that backfired because everybody had their version of the story that they told and you know when you're not telling your version and I always just feel like you know, people that know me should know me and I don't need to tell my version of the story and that's what sucks and I think.

Speaker 2:

But I also think it helped weed out people that maybe shouldn't have been in and I think too, in the position you were in back then, it was almost like you had to take the high road, you know, like you had to take the high road because there were so many moving parts.

Speaker 2:

Well, and there were also legal things involved like there were lawsuits we'd find the lawsuit, someone else filed a lawsuit, there's all kinds of that going on, so so I should ask you how did you handle it, how did you feel when, those, when that was happening?

Speaker 1:

so there's a. We've got like 17 different things that happened, so I can think of and it makes it sound like oh I have terrible business I've had good businesses too, and good partnerships. I mean like our partnership is amazing yeah, we've been in business on and off together many, many times over and it's been great. And we've had cory and we've had plenty of people that we've been in business with that have been phenomenal.

Speaker 1:

But I want people to learn from the shitty ones. From a feeling perspective, I know I was devastated, I was hurt. Just as a human being, you want people to like you. You want to be accepted by people. It's a human nature. So when people are rejecting you or saying negative things, especially when they're not true and you know they're not true, that hurts you to your core of who you are, and I think a lot so from looking.

Speaker 2:

You know somebody from the outside looking in. I think you were a scapegoat for when it start. You know when all that turmoil started? It definitely was it's her, it's her, it's her. She's the bad guy.

Speaker 1:

There was a lot of premeditated, orchestrated things for people that wanted the financial opportunity and the title and the prestige and I don't want to say power, because I don't feel like I had power, but I think some people perceived it as power. So I think there were people that wanted you know, there's that sign people want what you have without taking the time to build, what it took to build it, so they see you as an overnight success and they don't see the 10, 15 years you put in to build it and they just want to just show up and have it. And so I think there was a lot of that and there was some things that were orchestrated pretty in-depth and severely to the point where, after the fact, people oh yeah, there were secret meetings about you and I mean I've signed affidavits for all this stuff.

Speaker 1:

So it's not like I can say what I can say, because I've got the facts to back it up, so I have. There were secret meetings that happened about like, oh, we're going to do this to that bitch and we're going to do that and like awful, awful things when I like, literally, am showing who should have stopped, it didn't.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, like, correct the people who should have stopped it didn't stop anything, but I think that I think the overwhelming factor that goes back to all of it is greed. It's absolutely great. I mean, greed is the, greed is the overrunning theme in it all. And I will also say at some point it almost felt cult-like, would you not?

Speaker 2:

not agree with that. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1:

Like it becomes to the point where you know if you speak out against it. And so that's where I, bart and I, disagree, because I'll defend some people that didn't stand up and stop it or like went along or just kept their head down and went with the flow. Because I feel like when you're in a cult like they talk about some of these different religious cults or whatever Like people don't say anything, because they're so, first of all, they're brainwashed and they're ingrained to think that this person's the best and this leader's the best, everything that flows down from them is the best, and also they're afraid.

Speaker 2:

I feel like that's what it was.

Speaker 1:

It's both of those things, yeah, and so I think that you don't get to talk. You were invited to be a special guest and you said you didn't want to be a guest, so you can't snide from the peanut gallery if you don't want to be actually on camera. Just so you know you can be on the next one. That's Bart over there. We ain't having that topic going on next time. You don't have a mic. You have to be quiet. No, they can't, they can't. So here's a question company fallout or getting out of business with someone who you really trusted.

Speaker 2:

I felt like I just had to cut it, burn it down and start over.

Speaker 1:

For me.

Speaker 2:

How do you get out of it?

Speaker 1:

Because I feel like you, never Well I think about even when you left one company to go to the other company. I'm trying to be very politically correct here. When you left the one company to go to the other company that I wasn't at, that you were at, and we were swimming in the pool and we were talking about it. Lord, I remember.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I do, I do, and I was there and knew nothing. I remember leaving there like what the fuck? Like holy shit.

Speaker 1:

And it's go and again. But even when you left there, as you were leaving there, you were like holy shit, I didn't think they would treat me this way. Oh my god.

Speaker 2:

They always say say like you should never burn bridges, because you never know you might come back. I mean, that's just. I mean. They lit that shit on fire.

Speaker 1:

Lit it on fire and fucking threw it out the door throwing a bag of shit on there too, and letting it up for you know when the little kids throw the shit and they light it on the porch. That's what they did to you, to the point where I was like.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I'm respectful like hey, I'm doing this and I'm leaving, and I'm going and I'm blah blah blah, and you didn't have to, I did not have to be respectful. It was to the point, you know, one was on the phone checking the stock market and it's like all right, well, fuck, you see, ya, I couldn't get, I couldn't leave, yeah, you couldn't run out the door fast enough after that, right literally and so that's when kind of things start.

Speaker 1:

Your eyes start to open you're like oh, this is what was going on.

Speaker 1:

When you start putting the pieces together, you're like, oh well, in hindsight you can see a lot more like you're in this microchasm, when you're in it and then you are out of it and you're like, oh, I had a high, high level leader of the company. Tell me, colleen. It feels like when you're in it that this is the whole world. And when you get out of it, and you're out of that company and you're out of it those, you're going to realize that all the stuff that goes on there and they do it doesn't even matter in the big picture of the real estate industry. So true, so insignificant. He said. And this was like a high, high level leader and I'm still friends to that with this person and they really helped that. He really helped me a lot to emotionally process and get through some of the stress and the things because we talked about the gas, like gas lighting was probably the worst thing.

Speaker 1:

Because you think to yourself, like did I do so? Well, I got into business with these people, so it's my fault. Right, or I chose to be in at this company, so it it's my fault. And, like you start thinking, okay, well, what did I do wrong and what could I do better? And how did how? Is we're taught as leaders to take responsibility, to say where's my DNA on this? How did I show up wrong? How could I have shown up differently? What could I have done different?

Speaker 1:

which are all great things as a leader, right? So someone who's a who's taught to think that way, as a high-level leader and a high-level coach, they start to take that internally and it actually eats you up inside, which is terrible. And then, when you get out of it and you have someone else who is a high-level leader and they're like it's not you and here's what happened. And then you hear one, two, three, four, ten, fifteen other people reach out to you and tell you well, that happened to me too. You're like thank, thank, and it's a bad thank god, because I don't want that to have happened anyone else.

Speaker 1:

but it's like okay, it wasn't me, I was being gaslighted and that's what really sucks, really bad I'm thinking sorry I'm like on a ranting roll right now. I'm just thinking in my head how I mean we lost millions literally and we'll get it all back.

Speaker 1:

I'm not, we're getting it all back like I mean just alone with what our team is doing this year. So I mean we're going to talk about rebuilding. I guess I'm jumping ahead two segments. So we'll talk about grieving first, but I mean there's a whole rebuilding process that happens. How do you keep leading a team or showing up for clients when you're falling apart behind the scenes or on the inside? I think it's part of who I am. I drank a lot.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm just kidding, I did, I think for me it, I mean the show must go on. Yeah, that's how I feel.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think so too. You know, I always said to myself there's too many damn people that depend on me and I, you know, I can't wallow in self-pity or grief or woe is me or being the victim, because there's way too many people that depend on me to put my big girl's hands on, pull them up and get back in the cell.

Speaker 1:

That's how I feel, and I did have to navigate some like technical timelines and loopholes and things like that in order to do it with integrity and properly. When other people are like who cares, just go out there and do it, I'm like no, I want to follow, like even when I got kicked in the teeth, I still wanted to have integrity behind what I do which is kind of messed up. Look at that. I know he's like over there, just like bursting at the scenes trying to what was your darkest day during things like this.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I had, I think when I had left one place and went to the other, I was very alone.

Speaker 2:

So you know I didn't have you know somebody that came with me or me, that you know people that I bring with me or team members. I literally up and left everything that I knew alone and made the switch in the move and started over by myself, you know so I'm sorry, it's okay. I wish I would have been there with you. I needed that. I needed to burn it down to the ground. I needed to stand up on my own two feet and say you know what? I don't need it.

Speaker 1:

I can actually visualize probably two of the worst days that I had, like like emotionally, like I mean, there were lots of ups and downs that we went through and things like that. But I like remember the days that I felt the worst, and one of them I can actually picture where I was standing, who I was talking to, what I was feeling, and in the middle of the summer one of them I was actually. We were at Whitehorse, yeah, and we were having lunch. I ordered a sandwich no-transcript, have this spippet and it tracks your sleep and it's like, yeah, you slept for 15 minutes and like this was going like day after day and I wasn't taking any medications, I wasn't on any drugs.

Speaker 1:

So like to stay up just for that long because you just can't sleep is messed up.

Speaker 1:

And then the other time I was standing in my yard in the grass and I remember I was on the phone with a girlfriend of mine, who we were in business with as well, who saw the writing on the wall way earlier than me and got out, just like you did, right, like people see things at their time, when it's their time, and I was just sharing her what happened, because I just needed someone to talk to and I felt like you said, I felt so alone because here's the thing at that point you start shutting everyone else out because you don't know who you can trust. You're like is this person going to be the next one to turn? Is that going to be the next person to turn? Is that going to be because you know it's like a cancer?

Speaker 1:

can collapse do you ever think? Did you ever, at that time, think about quitting altogether? Yeah, me neither isn't that interesting. Bart's like why don't you just quit, just take a buyout, quit whatever. I'm like no, I'll be damned if I'm gonna let it stop me.

Speaker 2:

No, I didn't, because I knew I was. I knew what I was capable of and you knew what you're made of. Yeah, I think it was more like treading new water. You know, it's like you like it's a whole change of what my business was was made of at that time.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think also it allows you to experience a next level of growing as a business person, as a human and just in life.

Speaker 2:

And you know I think you know where we came from. It is cult-like and you are used for years. We're not talking a year or two years, we're talking 10 years.

Speaker 1:

I was there 14 years.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean nine, nine and a half, and that's you led to believe and that this is it.

Speaker 1:

There's nothing else outside of this. Everybody else is wrong or awful, or they don't know what they're doing. This is it.

Speaker 2:

And don't get me wrong, I've learned a lot. I've learned some great business things, but I've also learned what I don't want to do. Yeah, right.

Speaker 1:

How I don't want to do business, who I don't want to be in business with what? Red flags to look out for? How do you separate the bitterness so that it doesn't carry on forward into your next chapter? No, that's when.

Speaker 2:

I drank a lot.

Speaker 1:

No, you barely drank yeah.

Speaker 2:

You know what For me? I just to be honest, I just had to shut the door. That was it. I just had to shut the door. Try not to burn any bridges, because we all see each other together too, you bet, and I always remember that, like as much as I want to motherfuck somebody it's like just shut it and walk away.

Speaker 1:

Shut it and walk away in this instance. Yeah, for me it was hard. It was definitely hard.

Speaker 2:

Well, you had so many people again around you.

Speaker 1:

Well, because we had so many businesses. That's what I mean. Like me, I had a handful. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Which still hurt, yeah, nonetheless, but it would have been even more difficult if I had 40 people. Did I have 40? Probably Damn near, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I would say for me, not carrying it into the next chapter was just no. First of all, I think it's the next group of people that I did get into business with really helped me with that a lot.

Speaker 2:

I agree with that.

Speaker 1:

Like. I think that the company that we're in business with now, all the way to the tippy top, there's some really authentic, kind, caring people that are truly authentic. And I use the word authentic because other companies and not just the one we just came from, but other companies a lot of the leaders or people would put on one face and pretend like that they care about people or this, and when you see behind the curtain you're like oh shit, this person is the most greedy, self-centered, egotistical, all about themselves person I ever met in my life. And maybe I could be wrong about the people that I'm in business with now and maybe it's going to be a repeat 10 years down the road. I don't know, but I'm willing to risk it, based on knowing the red flags that I overlooked before. I won't overlook again, and I think I'm a little more standoffish about getting like diving in headfirst into the deep end.

Speaker 1:

I've slowly gotten my feet wet this time as opposed to jumping all in from the get go, and now I need to see that it actually is true before I believe it, whereas before I'm like okay, you tell me and I'm going to believe it. So I would say that that's changed, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I was there too.

Speaker 1:

What new rules or boundaries did you set for yourself when building your circle back up For?

Speaker 2:

me anyways. I don't want to be friends with everybody. I like everybody, but I don't want to be friends with everybody like I was before. I don't want to bend over backwards for everybody.

Speaker 1:

I don't want to. When you learn some things about people and you're like, oh, that person's not a nice person, it makes you more cautious. Sure, and I think that's what this time around it was like what? I just want a few good people Keep the circle small.

Speaker 2:

I don't need to be friends with everybody, tight and small, yeah, I don't need to be friends with everybody. I don't need to please and do for everybody.

Speaker 1:

How do you decide now who gets access to you?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think they come and go. You know, I think it's for me. I get to know you again, like I have to get to know who you are, you know well.

Speaker 1:

I think you've even learned some things about me over time. Like, I think, even though we've been close and friends for a long time and in the back of your mind you were probably still like, hmm, and then we're sitting somewhere and someone tells you something. You're like holy, you know exactly the conversation that I'm thinking of.

Speaker 2:

I was blown away because, you have people's back. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

But you're still like could that really be true? Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

You think you hear someone and you're like, well, holy shit, that was true you're like oh, if, if they only could hear what I just heard, or if they only knew what you know. Then it's like oh, because you do. You always think like well, you know, there's their side, yep.

Speaker 1:

And then somewhere in the middle is the truth. And then you hear like a third party that has a lot of credibility and clout and ability to just say to not have any interest in the conversation, to tell you something that validates You're like holy cow.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, and to even like a good friend of mine, which you know, who was a realtor, was like, oh, oh, you know, I don't know, kevin, you know my, my attorney friend said this and my attorney friend said that. And then, all of a sudden, you know, a month or two ago, I was like, oh, my attorney friend wants to sit down, oh, yeah, yeah and meet with colleen and the t. I'm like, wait, isn't this the same person?

Speaker 1:

that was talking no way. Who said no? Yeah, yeah, the gossip in this industry is rampant and it's so ironic that our code of ethics specifically prohibits it. Nobody knows that Code of ethics says you shall not speak disparagingly about another realtor. I mean, the gossip in this industry is so it's disgusting. It's disgusting, it is disgusting.

Speaker 2:

No doubt.

Speaker 1:

How's your definition of team or partner changed? I could tell you mine, you know.

Speaker 2:

I think what we have built here has been is working pretty well, and I think, too, it's because you learn from your mistakes what you're not going to tolerate, what you are going to tolerate, what you should do, how you should treat people and what you will take. You know what you'll tolerate. I think we had a good group as far as our team.

Speaker 1:

And some good people with integrity and honesty a good group as far as our team and some good yeah, people with integrity and honesty. Sure, I agree. I think to me, that means more than anything like work. Ethic is just as important, but integrity and honesty is huge too. It's like those two go hand in hand and so production is like a ancillary thing.

Speaker 1:

If you show up with integrity and you put in the work, the production will show up eventually, when we are the other I was just reading that somewhere was it my buddy who was saying that.

Speaker 1:

I think it was I saw something and I it like kind of revalidated. I you know I talk about alex hermosi and leila hermosi all the time, but he had a thing where, like a little reel or clip, where he said it doesn't matter how much production or how good someone is at sales or whatever, if they are an asshole, and he used the word asshole.

Speaker 2:

I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1:

If they're an asshole, they got to go. I said that.

Speaker 2:

Yep, absolutely About our just the tampon Right?

Speaker 1:

Yes See, we have nicknames. Yeah, so I wrote down here choosing aligned collaborators, not just convenient ones. I think that's basically what we said Choosing people who have the same core values.

Speaker 1:

The same vision, the same ethics, the same standards, and not just someone that like, oh, they fit into this box. So, turning the pain into power, the silver lining, I would say, is these breakups forced growth, a lot of them. As much as it hurt to go through it, I think it forced me into the next chapter that I probably wasn't ready to open or close the door on my own.

Speaker 2:

I for sure think that For you.

Speaker 1:

Well, you too, I mean when you're comfortable, even though things are not going like you got money coming in and you're in a comfortable spot. You're not going to move necessarily on your own. So having that force to move allows you the opportunity to get into that next spot.

Speaker 2:

For sure, Hindsight is 20-20, but for me you do have to grow from that.

Speaker 1:

What would you tell someone listening right now who's in the middle of a similar situation? Do it Go, burn it down. I mean get out. I mean it's almost like being in a bad marriage or a bad relationship no-transcript. What did I do wrong? Where's my dna on this? And there was the gaslighting, all the things. Some of these bad business relationships are absolutely akin to a abusive, bad marriage or bad relationship.

Speaker 2:

I agree with that.

Speaker 1:

And so the whole process that you go through internally is very similar to grieving that loss of that relationship, because it's even triggering, like if I see an email pop up with a certain person's name on it, it literally still makes me sick to my stomach.

Speaker 2:

I'm like why is this person emailing me?

Speaker 1:

I'm like oh, it's a candy or a letter. Remember that letter I left on your desk? Yes, me I'm like oh, it's a candy or a letter. Remember that letter I left on your desk? Yes, I was like why is this person mailing me a letter? And then I left the envelope on kim's desk and she's like what?

Speaker 2:

it was so weird and even write the letter with someone on their staff that obviously wrote it, didn't know, but but still it triggers you. I, I was gonna say, even when you well, look at us literally.

Speaker 1:

Who's who's got that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, who's got that? I mean, it just is what it is. It is triggering.

Speaker 1:

But I think betrayal also becomes a catalyst for deeper alignment, for sure, and I feel like where we are now and who we're in business now and you know, there might be still some people we get out of business with or get into business with, and you know, I think no man's the same man twice when he steps in a river.

Speaker 1:

How does it go? Let me start over a man is never the same man when he steps in a river because he he's not the same man and it's not the same river, meaning that, like, where you are in your life is going to be different, because you're always going to be growing, but also the world around you is going to be changing and the people are changing. The only constant is change itself, like nothing else is constant. Yeah, change is always happening and I think where we are aligned now is really powerful and that might change in the future. But I'm gonna live in a really happy place in the moment with the people in our tight little circle for where we are now and we're gonna have a lot of fun, we're gonna work really hard, we're gonna make a lot of money together. Did you see them numbers?

Speaker 1:

oh, you see the numbers for june I haven't seen all the June numbers, just the under contract totals. But I haven't, we haven't added. But I saw those May numbers and I was like holy crap, yeah, Kicking butt. I mean we're on pace to do three times the business we did last year. Pretty impressive, but I mean last year we really only had a third of the year. So it makes sense Like Well, and it's pretty, I think we're going to do this year, the kind of numbers that we like, oogled people on stage before.

Speaker 1:

We're like oh, if we could only do that right and we're like well, we can do better. But I think that's the thing that hurt and betrayal is the stepping stone for the next opportunity that allows you to grow and flourish into your true self and your true person of who you should be.

Speaker 1:

And I will say, one of the other things that kind of really got us through is there were some more people who really were there that stood by me and not all at my company now and not all in business with me now like I've got friends all over the country that are really really true awesome friends and we laugh and joke and some of them are funny because of how they're related in terms of other people that work with other people and things like that. I can't disclose because I don't want to get anybody in trouble. But you know, we make, we make jokes, like our birthday trip last year, right, bart? Oh, he's not saying anything because I told him he couldn't talk. He's all busy with me now. What do you know now? For sure that you didn't know before.

Speaker 2:

I definitely wouldn't get into the same business that I did with the same people at the same place, and I think for me it's just. I just wouldn't make the same mistake. And not that they're mistakes, I shouldn't even say they were mistakes, I think some of them are mistakes.

Speaker 1:

I mean some of them. Here's what I'm going to say Trust my gut more.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because there were plenty of times where I was like, oh you know, red flag, Like you have a the crap out of a homeless bum on convention before they joined the company and we still got into business with them, and then they're the ones that are trying to talk crap about me and conspire against me.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we know who you are. Yeah, I remember that. So I ignored the red flags because I wanted to create something so bad that I allowed myself to be blinded by those things. Like I'm like oh no, it was just, it was a fluke. It was no, it. It's not a fluke when someone gets so smashed drunk that they beat the hell out of someone on the streets in another town, at a convention, at a company they're not even at yet you should not get into business with that person.

Speaker 1:

That was after we were already in business with them. But yeah, there was, yeah, where he got into another fight and beat the crap and my poor team leader calls me crying because one of her investors was in a huge bar fight and was beating the hell out of someone and the police were coming and they had to get in the bus and you know, the stories that I know about people that I haven't told, about people they should be worried about. Yeah, yeah that's ouch yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean, there's a lot I've had people that were so drunk that I've had to dress them to get them back on the bus and on the plane. I was just thinking about in my head.

Speaker 1:

And then they go and turn around and call me every name in the book, including like badass, and I think the exact terms were elephant with an elephant emoji. But see, I think the other lesson is you have to have thick skin and know that people, when they're in a desperate mode or they're in a desperate situation, they're just throwing mud at you because they don't know yeah whatever right.

Speaker 1:

You forgot what I had to dress you, though, right, I mean, it wasn't, the person wasn't naked, but they had their swim trunks on and I had it. Like what, what is that about? About the elephant? Oh, she's so ugly face. Something I forgot. I was so ugly, not?

Speaker 2:

you know the other person yeah, but.

Speaker 1:

But I mean he was still willing to talk about someone else that way. So, like, how do you? That's a red flag. I would think my number one piece of advice for someone currently navigating the same storm is know that you're going to be okay, you can survive, get out and get through it as fast as you can, but know that there's light on the end of the tunnel. Yeah, trust your gut. Don't ignore the red flags. All of the above, those are all great ones, but you know what. You're still going to make mistakes. Don't beat yourself up over it. Give yourself grace. Like you're going to get into business with someone. You're like oh why did I do that? Like, just get out of it. Get out of the situation and don't avoid the conversation. Hit the conversation head on and have it faster, because you can always make more money yeah, and that's what I found out too.

Speaker 2:

Even if you burn it to the ground, yeah, you're still look at us. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Speaker 1:

Like you can sell multi-million dollar businesses that all we had to burn to the ground I mean somebody else lit the torch. We just kept letting it burn because what choice? Was there at that point, friendships, I mean. I've even had where we've had people that were completely we just don't talk to or whatever. But we've even had, like family members that we've had to navigate through, and that was hard, that's hard, that was really hard.

Speaker 2:

Well, you and me both, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1:

That's hard.

Speaker 2:

That's why I'm saying it's difficult.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes people who clap the loudest for you are the ones that are waiting to take your place. I would say that 100% you I probably had a target on my back bigger than an elephant's ass. I used to say it all the time. That's going to be a quote on the Instagram Target bigger than an elephant's ass, I mean really. I mean I, but I mean Not everyone who sits at your table is praying for your feast. That's a good one.

Speaker 2:

It is Because that's true.

Speaker 1:

And you know what you've seen. This quote, not a backstabbing, motherfuckers, huh. Yeah, I mean there are there really are. I mean really if you think about it, but I think there's how many billion people on this planet? And you're going to have to navigate through the shitty ones to find the good, good ones.

Speaker 1:

The one thing that I will say from the experience is I really have developed some really great friendships all over the world. Like I've got friends in countries, I've got friends in other states that are truly like my soul sisters Right. Like like my friend Julie. She's amazing. Like I love her to death, like anything I need I can call her up, she can call me up Like it's, it's there, it's out.

Speaker 2:

So there, I mean there a lot of good has come out of some situations.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean friendships and friendship breakups and business are real and they can destroy everything if you let them. You got to be the strong enough one to in the butt when you can. And I will also say betrayal doesn't break you. It teaches you who you really are, that's true, like it teaches you what you've got and how you can pull from every ounce that you have inside. And yeah, kind of stand up, that is true we lost businesses, businesses, we lost money, we lost people, but we never lost ourselves. Amen.

Speaker 2:

Woo-hoo sister Amen.

Speaker 1:

So I have a wrap-up message.

Speaker 2:

That was a good one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it was good, we've been betrayed. Yeah, we've cried, yeah, we've cursed. Yeah, we've closed companies. Mm-hmm, and yet smarter and more soul aligned than ever before. Yeah, if you've been through it or you're in it now we see you. You're not alone. Keep going. Go do some epic shit, listen, subscribe, tune in Apple, amazon, spotify, youtube. We're there, peace out.