Do Epic Shit

Hiring Nightmares and Dream Teams: A Survival Guide

• Colleen Basinski & Kimberly Neill • Season 1 • Episode 6

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Building a real estate team is often positioned as the golden ticket to success, but behind the glamour lies a complex reality few are willing to discuss. What happens when the team structure fails? How do compensation models actually affect team members? And why do so many team leaders find themselves working harder rather than achieving the promised passive income?

Drawing from decades of combined experience, we pull back the curtain on team building to reveal uncomfortable truths rarely addressed in industry training. We share our biggest mistakes – from ill-fated hiring decisions made out of sympathy to compensation structures that simply weren't sustainable. The traditional 50-50 split model leaves many team members struggling to make ends meet after brokerage splits and marketing costs, sometimes taking home as little as 10% of their hard-earned commissions.

The most successful teams aren't built on exploitation but on mutual benefit. They provide genuine value through administrative support, marketing assistance, leads, and technology tools while creating fair compensation models that allow everyone to thrive. Finding the right people (usually through trusted referrals) and setting them up for success with proper training and systems proves far more important than rapid growth. We explore how to delegate without abdicating responsibility, how to handle team departures gracefully, and why being in production keeps team leaders connected to market realities.

Ready to rethink how you build or join a team? This episode delivers actionable insights on creating team structures that foster growth rather than resentment. Remember, building a team is for impact, not ego – and with the right approach, you really can build something epic together.

💡 Lessons we’ve learned about balancing it all—sometimes successfully, sometimes… not.

If you’re out here trying to do EPIC SH*T, this one’s for YOU. Hit play, tag a friend, and let’s do this thing together! 👇

🎧 Listen now on Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music & APPLE Podcasts!

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🎙️ Hosted by: Colleen Basinski & Kimberly Neill

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Speaker 1:

just because I felt bad for them and I tried to help them and it's come back to thanks.

Speaker 2:

So here we go. Boy, I feel like I haven't seen you in ages here Right it's been a while.

Speaker 1:

Well, welcome to Do.

Speaker 2:

Epic Shit.

Speaker 1:

I'm Colleen Baczynski, I'm Kim Neal, and we are here to share with you today. So today's topic is building a team, what works and what doesn't.

Speaker 2:

Let's get into it.

Speaker 1:

So if you haven't been following us on Instagram, facebook, tiktok, we're there. Spotify, you can listen. Iheartradio, amazon, apple we're everywhere, yeah, so follow along. We're having some good conversations, fun conversations. I got my heart socks on today. I got no socks.

Speaker 2:

It's kind of cold outside, I know, what are we going to talk?

Speaker 1:

We're talking about building a team, what works and what doesn't. So why does this matter? So, team building, yeah, team building.

Speaker 1:

I have in my notes here a couple things. Well, you can't grow something epic alone. Absolutely not, for sure. There's a big difference. High producing agent and being a leader I would say it takes both. Well, don't you know some people that just do a lot of deals but they are just miserable to be around? You bet yeah, Yep. And then everyone glamorizes team building, but no one talks about what goes wrong. We're going to give you the low down, dirty down truth.

Speaker 2:

You'll get it yeah.

Speaker 1:

Say, kim, you've built a team. You've had a team. You haven't you know you've gone solo been on a team. You've been on a team. You were on an expansion team like a multinational team.

Speaker 2:

You know what made you realize it was time to build a team so I think the the busier you get, you obviously need leverage and you need some help. So that's where I started. It was just a little too much for me to handle, so I I thought you know, let's dive in and start building.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think where we came from too, at least at some point, like not maybe where I first started my first brokerage, but the brokerage where we first met and worked together building a team, was kind of shoved down your throat. All the time it was like, oh, this is the only way to do it, and I think at that point you're just getting into the business and build.

Speaker 2:

They're teaching you how to build a business, but then it goes from building a business into a team and for me it soured me. Yeah, not that I don't think they're beneficial.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think we have the benefit right now of building it the way that we want to, based on what we know worked and what didn't work, and even some of the gurus like the models that worked, I think back then. Some of the gurus like the models that worked, I think, back then. Some of them are still solid foundational models, but a lot of them the world has changed and I don't think that they've changed with it, I agree. So I would agree that nobody can succeed 100% alone, like there's.

Speaker 2:

Everybody needs help at some point it's like anything you have to grow that business. Then you start to leverage pieces out. I just feel like for me there's a lot of moving parts to a team. You know, not just you come on my team, you come on my team, I'll take half your money, I'll spend more money and then I end up by myself.

Speaker 1:

Well, I've got some good bullet points here. I'm going to share some of these with you and I bet you're going to get the wheels turning where we can share some good stories and some things that so I have. Don't build a team to stop working. I see so many people like, oh, I can sit back and just I'm gonna get out of production. There you go. You build it to level up. You build it to expand your resources, to leverage resources. You build it to be around people that you like to be around and that you can all grow and win together, not to get out of production.

Speaker 2:

That was your trophy. To be able to say so stupid. So freaking stupid I'm out of production. That was like you're. You wore that badge with honor, yeah, when you couldn't be so far removed from it Well and I think you get out of touch with what the consumer wants. You do.

Speaker 1:

Like. So I was out of production, but not because I was building a team. Yeah, I will tell you. It also caused me to be out of touch with what the consumer wants to some extent, and since I've been back in it, you know a couple of years now, so it's been almost two years back in production. So like I feel like I'm grounded really well, I have all the foundational principles that I had from the past, all my experience from the past and now, like what's working now and what's not.

Speaker 1:

I will tell you that you get out of touch with what's going on if you're out of production completely. I also have written down a bullet point A team is not passive income, it's leadership. What do you think about that? Yeah, I would say Well, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

When it's done correctly. I was going to say if it's done correctly, how many people do you talk to, or how many people are doing it correctly. I think that's where the there's very few that do it correctly. And that's where it gets frustrating for me, because I see it, I watch it, I was there and I would say, if you had 20 teams, three are running right the way that it should.

Speaker 1:

Well, and what's right too?

Speaker 1:

So like what's right for us might not be what's right for someone else Because the way we have ours set up now, we've got like a couple of tiers to it, so we've got our network, we've got our group, we've got our team and we have different levels so that people can plug in at the level that's right for them and their lifestyle. Because, just as you go through different seasons of life, you're going to have different needs and wants. And I want to be around people that I want to be around, that we can build and grow together and that it's a mutually beneficial relationship. And I see too many teams that it's about the team leader's ego, about their pocketbook and how much they can make off of other people, and that's a shitty way to grow a business.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's, I feel like, that's why a lot of teams fail, and I think that's the beauty now is you've made so many mistakes building these teams and being involved yes, I have. Well, and then you know for the next round what you want and what you don't want, what's appealing, what's not appealing. And I just told you, I had a conversation with somebody I used to work with about building a team.

Speaker 1:

Well, and when we think about the old model, so we're kind of jumping all over today and that's okay. I'll kind of recap so that we can organize our thoughts and talking points later. But I think that's when I talked about like the old models. If you're hiring someone and you just think about even corporate in general and jobs in general and companies in general, the old way of hiring someone for as little as possible and squeezing every ounce of work out of them just doesn't work as a human being anymore and not that I ever wanted to be that person, but there were companies that did that, Plenty of companies, Sure.

Speaker 1:

And then if you think about like the idea of hiring people now, it's about making sure they have a good balance of life, that they can earn a good living and have a good time with their family, and it's all that balance. I think the old model I know you want to say something and I just got to get this out Old model of like I split with my team members 50-50, and then they have to split with my brokerage and before you know it, there's just a little fraction of a portion that's left for them. That's just not a sustainable business model and it just not a sustainable business model and it's not a humane business model.

Speaker 1:

Like we talk about work hard, be kind To me. That's not kind. I have some.

Speaker 2:

How do you feed your family? You don't. How do you feed your family If I'm splitting 50-50 with you and then I got to give 30% of another 30%, 20, whatever.

Speaker 1:

So 50-50 with my team, 30. With my brokerage, I'm taking home 20%. Well, and what if there's a referral fee or a Zillow Flex fee?

Speaker 2:

You're getting like 7% and I watch these teams and they're I'm killing it at $40 million. I'm killing it at $80 million and I'm a Zillow Flex agent, which is great because you do get the leads.

Speaker 1:

You build. Yeah, we're not the ones that are going to dog the lead aggregators Zillow. Redfin, Realtorcom, Movoto. They all have their place in this industry and I feel like they help you build your business.

Speaker 2:

I've used one of them for leads for many years and it helps you build your business. What I think is misleading for me and I can only speak for me when I see other teams that are doing 40, 50, 60, 70 million dollars and then I see, you know, as you talk to them and you say, hi, I'm a flex agent, I'm a this agent. So here you go, you're splitting half with you know, you're the internet company. You're splitting half with your team, then you're splitting another portion with your bro. By the time you're taking home, you're taking home 10%.

Speaker 1:

Well, you think about it of a pie. If you split that pie in half, and then you took that half and you split it in half, and then you took that half and gave 30% of it away, and then you had another little fraction out of that for your taxes and whatever. What are you left with? Like a little tiny sliver of pie.

Speaker 2:

How are you going to eat that whole pie could feed you.

Speaker 1:

But on the flip side there's costs. Go ahead.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was just going to say that little sliver of pie. Now bring that home and split it with your family of four or five. I don't know, is it sustainable?

Speaker 1:

I'm tired. I think there's a happy medium out there, and I think there's a lot of people that haven't found it yet, in my opinion. So, anyway, that's that's my thoughts on that. I will say, though, building a team slow and steady, can make sense, and having the right leverage can make sense.

Speaker 2:

You bet. I think there's benefits definitely to have a team. I mean if you know you have your TC and your you know buyer's agent and showing it Like they all bring value to the team. You know, that's how you can grow. There is a happy medium. You have to find within that.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think you said something like your TC and so we have a marketing assistant, a transaction coordinator, an operations manager, and then we have agents on our team, and then we have marketing group agents that collectively network together and brand together and pool resources.

Speaker 1:

So, there's different levels. I think for us it works. That might not work for everybody else. So you know there's risk and responsibility and everything. So you have to decide which risks you want to take and who you want to hire. And I think also we'll talk a little bit about this is outsourcing or offloading, because we just made a terrible hire recently.

Speaker 1:

Wow so we have a couple of VAs, so we have two great VAs right now. Va stands for virtual assistant, got a marketing VA, marketing assistant and we've got a transaction coordinator. And then obviously Corey's on hand. He's in-house, he's our operations manager, so I don't have to personally hire or oversee the virtual assistants, because he's handling that and responsible for all that, which is great. Now I've been working with Corey and then even I had his wife Ki. He worked with me for many, many years. So they've kind of I've trained them over the years and helped lead them and develop them and grow them.

Speaker 1:

So I have trust in him that he's going to do what's needed to be done. But he still comes to me. We still meet regularly, we still talk regularly on how to do things. But I was going to say we made a hire recently. I was like we need another assistant. So we've got this podcast thing going right and so we have all of our support staff for the team and the group and the network together. But we're doing you and I are doing some side projects right let's just call it is.

Speaker 1:

So we want to build our individual sales a little bit more. We're doing this podcast. Obviously we're doing some other kind of growth strategies in terms of passive income and investment and things, and so we were looking for a second like, basically, personal assistant for the both of us, since we thought about doing a virtual assistant, so I still think it is a great idea. We're going to. I just think we're going to. I'm going to personally interview the people instead of offloading it, so we outsourced to a third party company to do that for us.

Speaker 1:

What a freaking disaster. It's still a disaster. Yeah, it's been over a month. We don't have a person. We had a person. They worked for three days. I spent three days. So one of the things that I've learned over the years is you're going to get out of a hire what you put into them. So I did know that I did do that correctly. You did and it was really good it was good and you know we talked about AI.

Speaker 1:

If you guys aren't using AI, you are missing the boat. I know you hear everybody talking about it's like all the rage right now, but it literally I think ai saves me hundreds of hours, hundreds of hours for you, for sure ai I.

Speaker 1:

I used it to help organize my thoughts and to put my training materials together. So I talk to it and then it basically is like a secretary transcribing my thoughts, and then it organized them to bullet points and then I can put it into training material and it helps research for me. So, but you still need a physical person to do a lot of things, so I can't use AI for everything. So I spent all this time putting the training together and I knew I had to invest into the training of the person. Yes, but it wasn't the right person, because after three days, what happened? He got scared.

Speaker 2:

No, yeah, Maybe he just well, yeah, but he just like MIA. Well, they said, you know the internet went down, yeah, but yeah, that was almost, that was two weeks ago today, two weeks ago, it was two weeks ago and we still don't have somebody else.

Speaker 1:

So I would just say, and this was a reputable company that's out there. So I think now the other two virtual assistants we have I actually found them on my own which I like, and Corey and I interviewed them and went through and so Corey's gone through an extensive interviewing process. So I think interviewing people and doing a valid screening there's a personal involvement that has to be there. You can't offload that to a third party company in my opinion.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm not a fan.

Speaker 1:

And I think the same thing goes for agents on your team too, team members, because the wrong hire can cost your culture and your credibility. Like, think about people that we've had on our team, that we've had to offload. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

I never really paid much attention to that, until you really pay attention, like you're like oh, this person wants to work, they're so nice, bring them on your team, and it really I mean, it's like what? If you don't cut those ties quick. It's a cancer. Yeah, that's what I said it's a cancer.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I think, when you even had your team way back, when you had a few folks like that, that came and went I mean? Mean you've had some really great people like yeah, kristen's come and gone from our.

Speaker 1:

She was on your team. She was just at the brokerage and now she's in our team now like she's a good team member, but also things ebbed and flowed based on the structure of the brokerage and the team structures we had, and also you know your personal journey in your life unless I mean we, all you know, can sever ties with, and I feel like it's you as the team leader, leader, how you choose to end those relationships, you know.

Speaker 2:

so I mean with a team, you're with people and you should know this. I mean just with all agents coming in and out, I mean some.

Speaker 1:

you know that you're like hey ooh, and maybe I'm giving myself too much credit and, coming from a place of like, I'm so great. But I think I have a lot of experience in this regard and I will say that there are plenty of relationships where I thought I tried to end them gracefully, in the correct way and, depending on the person, they still went sideways, that's true. But I think, as the leader, all you can do is always do your best to end it gracefully and to let go and move on.

Speaker 1:

And I would say your team not only consists of the agents you hire and the support staff you hire, but also the vendors that you're in business with, because we've ended relationships with vendors that went horribly wrong and then we've had some that went just fine, and sometimes I've done it right and sometimes I've done it wrong. What I've found is communication is probably the best, and also don't always feel like you have to share your side of the story or be right. Sometimes it's best to just say, okay, yeah, you're right and move on even though they're not right. Right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely for sure.

Speaker 1:

I also have in my bullet notes here. Sometimes giving the underdog a chance pays off. So I can think of a specific example and I'm not afraid to use her name. I don't think she would care. Um Goulai's been with us and I finally know how to pronounce her name after nine years of being in business.

Speaker 2:

I can't believe she's been.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we said her name wrong for so long and I'm like she. When she said it she was like. I was like why didn't you ever correct me? She's so sweet. She wouldn't correct me so she is but when we first. So I hired her as an agent into our brokerage many years ago, so that's why we've been together for so long right.

Speaker 1:

But she had interviewed with a bunch of teams over the years at that brokerage because she wanted to be a part of a team. She's such a good team player Like she just will help out and that's why we send her business.

Speaker 1:

We send her referrals and leads and stuff too, like it's a two-way street right. But I feel like she had interviewed with a bunch of teams and they would not hire her because they thought she wasn't assertive enough, they thought that the language barrier was going to be a big deal. And we gave her a chance on our team and I got kind of in trouble for it because we took her from another brokerage or whatever. I don't know if we did. We followed all the protocol and steps that we're supposed to do, but you know sometimes you do everything right and people still have sour grapes.

Speaker 1:

But we brought her on to our team and gave her a chance and watching her blossom and grow as a leader and an agent in the organization and then watching her like when she closed her first million dollar deal and how hard she worked for her clients and how she developed Like that's an example of like. Sometimes I like to give people a chance when other people won't, Although sometimes that does come back to bite me in the butt too, she does anything.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, she does great, she's fantastic, I love her. She does anything, yeah, she does great, she's fantastic, I love her. So she's done great. But I think there's a lot of people that just want the perfect person and the perfect this, and I don't know about you, but I've never met anybody perfect yet at anything. God, yeah, no.

Speaker 2:

I was laughing. There's been a lot of like when you're in the business for a year. I think it goes like anything. You know you kind of follow. You know when you're a kid, like you know, don't be the follower, be the leader. I feel like the culture we were involved in was just like that was be your own leader.

Speaker 1:

But I think what I'm hearing you try to say and I don't mean to interrupt you, I'm sorry, no, was be your own leader, but I think what I'm hearing you try to say and I don't mean to interrupt you, I'm sorry, no, not at all. Is they almost made it feel like?

Speaker 2:

you were less than if you weren't the leader of the team.

Speaker 1:

Like that you were on a team or that you were a solo agent, Like oh, what's wrong with you that you're?

Speaker 2:

not building a team. Absolutely, you're not good enough. You said it perfect.

Speaker 1:

Because I where you were going with that and I'm like and I think that's so terribly awful and wrong, because there's so much value in being on a team and being part of a team and as a solo agent.

Speaker 2:

It takes you three and four years just to get acclimated and dealing with other agents and speaking to other agents and learning the business. I feel like it was stressful.

Speaker 1:

What I hear you saying is that you need to know how to walk the walk and talk the talk before you're bringing other people on too.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then you end up hurting people's feelings because you don't know you're still learning Because you don't have a freaking clue what you're doing and you're trying to teach other people how to do it and you think you know what you're doing you because it takes a long time to learn this business it's yes.

Speaker 1:

I'm 25 years in and I'm still learning shit every day me too, there's plenty of times I'm like uh-oh.

Speaker 2:

And then you know, building a team, you know, like you said, you get the wrong person on there, you and you're not showing them or you're not teaching them. You know that it's like cancer. I was on that team and that they did this.

Speaker 1:

They said that and they only paid me this and I have kids, so I hear a couple of things that you're saying there. I just want to organize those into points. Like one you got to pay people and treat people fairly. Yes, you got to know what you're doing and walk the walk before you start growing into a team, like being a team leader. Is not that all that it's cracked up to be? And number three, you have to have some structure and some training and some systems involved. You have to Like one of the things when we came, when I jumped back into production and we talked you and I talked about this.

Speaker 1:

Actually, when I first came here, I wanted you to come with because I knew I couldn't bring people on and build my production and coach and train them at the same time and I wanted you to come be our coach, remember. And then you like bailed on me. Yeah, well, you came eventually, but I was like man, okay, that's not gonna work, but anyway, I knew, which is why when we initially started growing this like our little organization, I wouldn't bring on a bunch of agents right away. I didn't go out actively recruiting, growing. Even with the 20 plus years of experience, it wasn't like, okay, let's just build this, just build this really quickly.

Speaker 1:

I'm like I went back and I was like, okay, now I need to write a foundational coaching program because I need to have something that I can give these people. And yeah, there's a lot of stuff in the industry, but it needs to be customized and specific to what you're doing for your people, right, like in your team and your organization. And then so we did that, and so we we wrote that, and then you've helped me with that, and so I feel like we had to have systems and structure in place. We had to have a good compensation model. And then we had to be in business with good people.

Speaker 1:

We've said this on a few other episodes that who's in your circle matters, right, so, like you can bring someone in who, like, is going to be just. And we've had a couple people come and go in all my different businesses and teams that, like we brought them on because we thought they were like you know, the racehorse or whatever and nobody wants to be around them and you're like you got to go. You treat people shitty, yeah, you, you're rude, or the ones that just can quote things out of a book but don't actually know how to do anything or don't want to do anything.

Speaker 2:

They think they want you to do it.

Speaker 1:

I've been used and abused way too many times by too many people that want me to do because I'm a workhorse and you're a workhorse.

Speaker 1:

I will never bring someone and allow them to outwork me, and not from an ego perspective, just from an outfield, guilty perspective. I'm never going to sit back and, although it may have appeared that way to people at times, one of my faults is I need to communicate better and share the things that I'm doing, and I would say you too, because you just do it and people don't realize. They think you're just Kim's, just out there business falling in her lap.

Speaker 2:

They don't realize what you're doing to get the business? Oh yeah, I think a lot of people yeah, well, and I feel like too. They only see, oh, you have 10 deals. Well, for the past three months I've been cultivating them and working.

Speaker 1:

So when you were on a team before because I remember, I remember there was tell me how you felt when you were on this team and things were not all rainbows and unicorns.

Speaker 2:

Which I was on a team and you were already a successful producing agent at that point. Yeah, I was already a capping agent.

Speaker 1:

But I think what made you decide to want to do it, and then what went wrong. I got where I was going to start.

Speaker 2:

So, and I think a lot of it was glitz and glamour. You see, like these people are up on stage and these people have big businesses and what are they doing? They got to be doing. Maybe I can learn from them, and really a lot a lot of it. I can learn from them and really a lot, a lot of it, and I hate to say it is smoke and mirrors.

Speaker 2:

It just is In this business it's determination. There's a lot of bullshit out there, there's a lot of shit, yep. And in this business it's and I think we're all trying to you hear something and you're like, oh, I'm going to try that it's a lot of it's like a lot of shiny objects, and the bottom line is it's consistency and hard work and a lot of it. So for me, I was in the grind for two years. I was just starting to build, and opportunity, you know, came my way, like join this team, and it was an expansion team. So I was the leader here, but had a team in other states. Well, first of all and I didn't know any better a team in other states.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, first of all, and I didn't know any better, how is somebody in, I don't know Utah, and I'm just saying that going to tell me how to handle a situation in Illinois? Yeah, local customs can vary from place to place. That was off. So I mean that starts your conflict like what. You don't know what you're talking about here.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's also why, like, we're multi-state, now right right like the forward group, not reals, not national. Reals in all 50 states, canada, whatever. So that's national, but our little group is multi-state, but we didn't expand to any states that we hadn't done business in first, so we knew how to do business right and it's uh, personally, yeah, and it's, it's a lot different here, Even Indiana right across the super, completely different Florida.

Speaker 1:

They're all completely different. We didn't bring on other agents in Florida, even an expansion leader, until we had actually been licensed and done deals there first.

Speaker 2:

And then you're, you know, as the person here, so in mine they call it an expansion team. Here I'm still running my own business, trying to run their business. Then I'm splitting my personal deals, I'm splitting their deals. It just became. It was overwhelming. But how did I get there? Opportunity presented itself. I wanted the shiny object I wanted a shortcut. What's the shortcut to get me there?

Speaker 1:

You wanted to go to here and you thought of it as a way up there, instead of climbing stairs to get there.

Speaker 2:

It was oh, look what they're doing there. They can bring that here, and I'm going to go from here to here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean you probably got taken advantage of a little bit and. I will take some, accept some responsibility for putting you in that situation, and I didn't know any better either, because the way that it was presented and taught to us, we're like, oh, this is great, but do you remember then that was the up and coming. Everybody was starting expansion teams, but you did learn some things when you were there too.

Speaker 2:

What to do and what not to do and how to treat people, and you know, and it really made me understand the money aspect of it. If anything, I walked away from that thinking if I ever build a team or have anybody work for me, I can't build it based on this model. So that was one of the things.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think, inherently, you're a fair person and you believe in doing the right thing, and so you understood that that model just wasn't fair. It just wasn't fair.

Speaker 2:

Especially when somebody else is doing all the work and you know it really opened your eyes to. They didn't get there that way either. Yeah, it was nitty gritty. It was get into the trenches.

Speaker 1:

So then let's flip the script a little bit. There are some instances and some situations. I mean, we've got people working with us where a team makes sense.

Speaker 2:

Oh sure, so let's talk about that, the right team makes sense, so tell me more about that.

Speaker 1:

What's the right team look like to you?

Speaker 2:

I think, where it's fair, where you can feed your family, where you're giving them. I think for me, the biggest takeaway that I've had in learning this is you have to give people opportunities, you have to give them value. A lot of times, these teams don't bring a lot of value. I feel like if you're there to help them through, if you're sharing business with them, you're paying them fairly. People will work and they'll work hard for you and they're loyal to you.

Speaker 1:

I think the compensation one is a big, a big, big, big one, huge. I think the challenge that we're faced with is when a team lead steps out of production, then they're so reliant on the profitability of that team that they have to take a bigger chunk from everybody. And so then therein lies the issue, and it becomes like lopsided, like you're just making money off of me but you're not actually doing anything.

Speaker 2:

Once you step out of production, I feel like it goes downhill and not. You don't have to do 55 deals, you can step out and do five deals as long as you're in the trenches with your people. The bigger your team gets, the more responsibility. I understand that. But when you completely walk away and you said it a lot depends on you, know your team, and then you're taking more to make more because you're not making your own money.

Speaker 1:

Sort of yeah, I think there's a value in that for sure. When I think about like the right team that's structured properly is gonna provide administrative support. Yes, In both the paperwork side and the marketing side. Right, they're also going to and that doesn't mean everything.

Speaker 1:

That doesn't mean you're not gonna like so. If a team's providing admin support, they're not gonna handle all of your social media for you, but they're going to give you the stuff that you can then because, at the end of the day, your consumers and your clients still want to see and hear from you. I got it. I had a deal I closed last year and they had previously used another agent who I knew, who had a big team, and they're like we never heard from them ever and we just felt like we were pawned off. I hear it all the time.

Speaker 1:

So I think there's that element of personal touch that still needs to be there, but the right team is going to have administrative support in forms of both paperwork support and marketing materials marketing support. The right team is also going to provide leads in some form, format or fashion, and you know I hear a lot of gurus go back and forth and say, oh well, if someone just wants to join you for leads, then that's the wrong reason.

Speaker 1:

They should bring, bring leads and they should do this. Yeah, I mean it is a two-way street, but you have, I think, as a team leader or team owner or whatever it is that you and I are doing here, that we do need to give value to those people and kind of help them get their feet wet. Now that doesn't mean that they don't also have to fish, but we're going to help give them some bait, we're maybe going to provide a little bit to get them going. And I also think and this is where we have disagreement there's some teams where you say you can only work with buyers and you can only work with sellers. I don't see that as sustainable either, because people get confused like, oh wait, so I'm buying with you and I'm selling with you. Now that doesn't mean that you don't have support for them in doing all the things that need to happen on the marketing end when they take the listing, but they should still have their hands in it, for sure, I absolutely, and that's how they learn the business.

Speaker 1:

That's how they learn how to service clients, how do you draft an? Agent, or draft an offer as a buyer's agent without understanding and seeing it from the perspective of the listing agent. Like I am a better buyer's agent because I understand what it's like when offers come into me on my listings and why, like when a buyer's agent sends me this crappy offer that they and I'm like well, this sucks. Why would this benefit my seller? Like, I think you can see things better from a different perspective when you've walked in those shoes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when you're doing both.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so we said admin support in both marketing and paperwork Leads yeah. So we said admin support in both marketing and paperwork leads yeah. I think technology is a big one too. All these companies claim like, oh, we'll give you this, we'll give you that, we'll give you that. I don't think they can give the level of tools that you need to function at a really high level in this business. I think you're going to either have to spend a lot of your own money or join a network or a team that pools their resources to be able to buy those sources.

Speaker 2:

Everybody's got a CRM to offer, everybody's got this to offer. So you go there based on that and you're like, oh, this team does this or this broker does that, and they're sort of speak a team. You know, if I walk into Ant Properties, I expect them to have the bomb of a you know they're.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I have no idea what they have there. Well, they have a whole box.

Speaker 2:

It's actually nice, but whatever, but you expect that. And then when you don't get it or you have to pay a small something for that, you're like but wait, I don't what?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day it's a business. There's costs involved. So those costs, that money's got to come from somewhere. So I think finding that sweet spot is the challenge that most people have.

Speaker 2:

And don't you think too? I mean, just that's why we're here where we are now. It's all a learning curve, it was trial and error. It's what I'm not going to do for there.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to do for there. I am going to pull from there. This is what I thought, and I think that's what makes I have hired people just because I felt bad for them and I tried to help them.

Speaker 2:

And it's come back to Thanks. It's come back to bite me in the ass over and over and over again, but I can't stop being a good person just because I'm a good person and I think sometimes you think that person because, being a good person, just because I'm a good person, and I think sometimes you think that person because you've known them for so long, you think, oh yeah, that that fit and it really doesn't so.

Speaker 1:

So I think screening and hiring is probably a big thing too. So I'm jumping back and forth. So we're talking about when, as an agent joining a team, you're looking for leads, you're looking for support in terms of marketing and paperwork, and then we're talking about technology tools resources and then there's the tactile things, like think about all the hard costs that you would have to pay for individually, and are you doing enough business that you can do that on a regular basis, or do you need so?

Speaker 1:

like photography, signage, lock boxes, marketing materials, yeah, flyers postcards, all of the stuff that folders the everything, because you know, just going out and printing one on your own versus being able to take it from the pile that the team has there, or even developing your own buyer buyer guide or developing your own seller guide or all the, even the crm, like I've seen. People say they have crms, but there are. There's a big difference in crms out there, I will say. And then all the add-on tools, that websites, all that knowing how all that works together, and all those pieces.

Speaker 1:

So, as an agent, I think newer agents definitely should join a team to start out, because it'll get your feet wet. You're going to get business faster Now. I didn't do it when I started out and I feel like it took me six months to put my first deal together. I would have been in that much faster if I could, but at the same time, back then when I was in it, there weren't a lot of teams and the ones that were were far and few between in terms of Back then.

Speaker 2:

You've been in the business longer than me, but a lot of it was husband-wife team.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know it was two people or mother-son.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, like, yes, yeah, like. I feel like there was never really more than two yeah.

Speaker 1:

And they were very Well. I mean, my first team member was my husband and man. I wanted to fire his ass, I don't know how many times. So here's where the fun stories come.

Speaker 2:

How to fire his ass not.

Speaker 1:

So how I first ended up building a team was I got hired on so I was selling. I've been selling for I don't know about six, seven years or whatever, before I built a team, so I wasn't a newbie.

Speaker 1:

So, following your model and your rules, I was right in line with where I was, I got hired on as a managing broker of a brokerage firm. So now I have an active business, a book of business database and I'm in an office now running a brokerage and I think we had like maybe 60 agents at the time and I was responsible for training, recruiting, hiring, compliance.

Speaker 2:

What were you the managing?

Speaker 1:

broker for there. Like what year? Oh, seven to 2010.

Speaker 2:

For three years I was there, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So 2007 to 2010. Okay, so, and I've been 25 years, so, yeah, it was about seven years, so it was twofold. So my husband decided he wanted to get out of construction and get into real estate, because he thought we didn't do anything but go out and get free lunch. Sure, did, at Broker's Open, yep. So I'm like, oh yeah, okay, buddy, yep, and you know, in the trades back then it was you're on and he would get laid off, start the course, then they'd call him back to work and then he'd have to start it all over again and they didn't have self-study or online or anything back then. So I'm running this firm and I'm like you know, I can go out and take listings while I'm still doing all these things, but running around with buyers takes time.

Speaker 1:

To this day it still does Going to take. A listing is a little bit less. So I was like like I really need a buyer's agent and I needed an admin. But the office secretary doubled as my admin, so I had that in place and so you know, I give her a little extra on the side and she would do extra stuff for me that you know was there, and then I need a buyer's agent. So I'm like, fine, you can come. So then he he got almost all the way through the class and they called him back to work and he's like nope, I'm not going back, I'm gonna finish it so I'm like, oh, finish it.

Speaker 2:

So I'm like, oh shit, okay, we better do this.

Speaker 1:

We better make this work, cause now we're losing our benefits, we're losing our paycheck Like you gotta make this work. Um and yes, we were already married by then, so it was do or die. He would not listen to me. I tried to teach him and train him, but you know oh come on, how many husbands would listen to their wives?

Speaker 1:

Totally, I would get. I get it. Could you see Dave listening to you? No, so I mean the first deal he did. I think he showed this buyer like 50 homes, drove them all over, they were late, they didn't like the houses.

Speaker 2:

That's when you drove people too.

Speaker 1:

It was terrible. He showed him about 50 plus homes. They finally write a contract. He doesn't know about floodplains and flood insurance. The deal dies the week before closing. Now, because he wouldn't listen to me, he wouldn't. I didn't train him. In his defense I didn't train him, but in my defense he wouldn't listen to me when I tried to train him. So it was like a two-way thing.

Speaker 2:

It was terrible.

Speaker 1:

And so deal dies. Right before closing the people cancel the contract or whatever because they didn't want the flood insurance. Then they go out and they fire him. And they go out and buy a house 30 days later with the listing agent of the deal that they died.

Speaker 2:

No, yes they did.

Speaker 1:

He remembers the agent's name.

Speaker 2:

He remembers the clients he remembers everything about him.

Speaker 1:

It's a good story for him to tell. He's got some good stories, so that's kind of like my first getting my feet wet.

Speaker 1:

So when I came to the brokerage, we were at it was me and him and an admin and we had kind of built a good little business. And then we had the short sale, you know the crash of the market, and we had the REO business and we didn't really. We had a few REOs but we didn't get a lot of REOs Right, I remember it was but REOs. Even to this day the agent has to put a ton of money out there.

Speaker 1:

Like these banks expect you to put all your money on the line, all the utilities in your name, all the winterizing, the clean out, like you pay for all that up front and maybe get reimbursed later.

Speaker 2:

It's risky.

Speaker 1:

So we didn't do a lot. We did some. We had a few REO accounts, but we mostly did short sales. We did a ton of short sales.

Speaker 1:

I wrote a blog about short sales. Like we were short sale expert and so we did a decent little business together. He you know, he dealt with a lot of divorce situations with short sales got gun pulled on him a couple times by angry husbands and like we had a good thing going. And so we end up moving to the brokerage where we were together and I get there and they're like you're not allowed to sell real estate anymore if you're going to be in a leadership role at this company. So I literally took my this team that we had built and it was. It was just husband and wife, just the two of us and our admin.

Speaker 1:

We had to leave our admin behind at the brokerage when we changed brokerage and I go to Bart and I say here you go, here's the team, it's all yours, the business it's all yours. And he's like what team? It's me. And I'm like well, good luck, figure it out. And so that was kind of like the start of our team building. And I think you know who his first admin that he brought on was oh, corey, was it? Yeah, part-time Corey. And then the office.

Speaker 1:

I stole Corey from him and then he had to hire and he went through a few more admin and I over the years helped him build that team yeah but I would say, um, you know, we did a lot of trial and error, so I would help him from an out of production standpoint but not an in production standpoint, and I love that we get to do this now. So back then it was a lot of husband and wife teams.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I feel like, because there was no.

Speaker 1:

I mean, if you couldn't do it, he would do it, if he didn't do it you could like that was, but I also think that there's some downfall to that, because if you're going on a family vacation together, who's going to handle things?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I agree, business shuts down.

Speaker 1:

So if you, had to give some like bullet points or some takeaways on to build or not to build and who. Actually, before we go into that, we read a mastermind a couple months ago and we had this couple of questions come up, and so I just want to expand on that a little bit, because I think we can add some value.

Speaker 1:

A couple of the people in our mastermind were like well, how do you find the right person to hire and where do you find the right person to hire? And you know we need an admin and we don't think we're hiring the right people. So let's talk about that's one area where I've excelled in terms of you know. I mean even the virtual assistants we've had have been great. When I outsource it to another company, that's where I got screwed over.

Speaker 2:

Well, I think you're really good One of your talents you're really good at the hiring process, Like what questions to ask. You know, I feel like that was. I mean, you guys did well, Our two VAs are pretty good.

Speaker 1:

But I mean even over the years with some of the like. Maybe not, maybe I didn't hire some of the best leaders, but on the admin side I feel like we really nailed that. I only had two and I think you've had great admin.

Speaker 2:

And I still talk to them. They're actually still in the business. Yeah, you've had great admin. So people, even though that, come in and like for me, like most of the people, except for one.

Speaker 1:

So we're stayed in the business. So let's go back and just kind of walk through this up. Where have you found your best?

Speaker 2:

hires friends yeah, not that they were my friends, but friends of referrals, referrals.

Speaker 1:

Same thing here, absolutely the same thing the best hires that I've had in all of our different businesses and through everything we've done have never been from some fancy ad we ran. No, it's always been people that we know or people who know people that we know. Yeah, with the exception of our vas and but even our current va one of one of our two vas that we have she was referred or came from an ad that I don't know if it was an ad Like, we had a different transaction coordinator and she had another opportunity came up that was going to be something she liked more and get more money. So she gave us notice. She stepped out so sweetly she's a sweet girl, but she helped us find her replacement.

Speaker 2:

Which is great.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so that Corey. Obviously we didn't offload it to her. Cory still interviewed and screened, but she helped source those candidates. So I think people that you know or people that work for you have a tendency to bring in other people like like attracts, like yes, now, that's not always the case. Sometimes you'll get a sour apple, like we've had agents that brought someone in the team and we're like, we bring them out and think they're going to be great and I'm like, oh, this person's gotta go, yeah, now, but that's not their fault. Like sure, for the most part, a lot of the people I hang around are like me, but once in a while I do have someone that I know that's just a jackass, yeah, right.

Speaker 1:

So I would say to those of you that are looking look for people that are in your sphere of influence or that people in your sphere of influence know that. Yes, you know, ask people. I mean some of the best hires I've had. I've asked well, kiki. I mean kiki was an amazing hire for me. I wish she could come back to work for me again, but she's got two little babies she's taking care of full time at home. In due time, yeah, she'll be back eventually. We're holding it out there. But I, cory, was working for bart at the time, or maybe the office, I don't remember, remember, and I kept asking him like who do you know, who do you know, who do you know? And I remember he said to me he goes, well, my girlfriend Jackie is way smarter than me and I'm like, good, let me have her number. He's like I don't know. I'm like, just let me talk to her, come on.

Speaker 1:

And I don't know if smarter, I think they're both very, very smart they're both great, great workers, great people, but that's what I mean where people know other great people.

Speaker 2:

I feel like a lot of hires, a lot of good hires, come from that.

Speaker 1:

No, I know at our other brokerage we were taught like this huge, long drawn out training or hiring and screening process, which I think there were parts of it that were good.

Speaker 2:

And there were parts of it that were bullshit. Yeah, I can't say they were all bad, like that whole, you know, was all bad, but a majority, majority was bullshit.

Speaker 1:

A lot of, a lot of smoke and mirrors yeah, I would say that dig deep, ask a lot of questions. Now, when I think about some of the people that I've hired, that have been with me a long time or that were really great, I did follow a lot of that process, like going through so when you take that initial interview, I, you know, do a great job, ask great questions, um, check references.

Speaker 1:

When you skip the reference check it comes back to bite you in the ass. You find out the person's like psychotic or whatever. Right, I would say, take the time to sit down and get to know them, know what's important to them, and then be kind.

Speaker 2:

I feel like that's. I mean not in every situation, but I think respect goes a long way. If you respect them and they respect you. I mean you can even part respectfully.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I mean you've got good friends that work with your team, that are on their own or doing different things now and actually, that's actually a good point that you bring up.

Speaker 2:

They came in under me because of me and they've left. We've left on good terms, and they're successful agents or successful admins all of them but one.

Speaker 1:

And I think that's a good point is that to keep in mind that every person comes into your life for a season or a reason, Sure, and that doesn't mean they need to stay with you forever and you don't have to go scorched earth just because they leave, Absolutely. You know, when someone does that, I'm like okay, so we're not going to work together anymore, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I've actually had so. There was a girl that we hired on our team initially and we were out of the area and so we probably over jumped the gun in terms of being able to support her at the level that we wanted, but she was so afraid to tell me that she was going to leave the team and I said to her I said okay, and she was like what? And I was like what's best for you? I don't need to keep you here or get mad at you because you're leaving If this is not what's best for you, and that's what's best for you.

Speaker 2:

I want that for you.

Speaker 1:

Because, right, I would like to think that I'm a good human and, as a good human being, that's what we want for each other, is we want them to flourish in whatever opportunity is best for them, and it makes you, as the leader, like you're like, oh, oh, okay, that was.

Speaker 2:

Nobody walks away feeling bad you don't have to an agent situation you still want to keep that. You know. Keep them. Well. What's great? You don't have to be on your team. Well, what's great about?

Speaker 1:

it is. We still have the relationship, we're still friendly, we're still whatever. She actually is still within our company, just not on our team. She's flourishing and we've referred business back and forth to each other.

Speaker 1:

So it's been a win all the way around and I didn't have to just hoard and hold on to people just because I think that's when you come from a scarcity standpoint. If you come from an abundance mindset, you're going to have the opportunity to have other people come into your world and it's okay that people come in and out of your world.

Speaker 2:

And don't you think? Sometimes, when they come to you and say well, you know, I don't want to be here, but sometimes not only are they relieved, but you are. Oh yeah, you know, you're like well, they just weeded themselves out. Well, that's great, we ended on a good note. I love that part yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and sometimes you're like whoo, that took that, left me off the hook. Bye, yeah, you know. So it's all in how we handle it and I think that the more you get into business, the more you do it, the more you know you can handle it better.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think also the next point I would make is, once you find those people and you bring them in, you have to set them up for success, you bet? Oh, we've talked about this before.

Speaker 2:

We still talk about it. It's so important because then, if they don't succeed, you know you as the leader have to take responsibility, like you just said it, like maybe we didn't set her up for success Like we should.

Speaker 1:

That's why, with this last VA, I spent so much time like making sure that I had all my training materials and my manuals, and also when we were adding agents onto the team, why I wrote that 12-week coaching program. I'm like I have to have this all laid out and organized in a system and a structure so that I can best support them.

Speaker 2:

So that they can be successful.

Speaker 1:

Because then I can walk away from any hire or anyone I bring into my relationship or my world and know that it was not me. I can leave in good conscience, knowing that I did what I could. At the end of the day, it's a two-way street. You still have the hire, still has to do the work, whether it's an admin hire or an agent hire or whatever they have to bring what they need to bring to the table, no-transcript to record it, and then you're going to do it yourself.

Speaker 1:

And so I think, though but the same thing with an agent, too. As a new, as an agent, a team leader hiring on agents, you have to. They, as an agent, a team leader hiring on agents, you have to. They don't know how to open a lockbox, even Like they're. You have to show them everything. You have to teach them what they need to know. Now, some of it's going to be common sense, yeah, but if they're representing you, you want to be out there. You have to have set them up for success, sure. So I think it's good people that you, you know. Look for people who are like the people that you want to be in business with, and then set them up for success. And then I would say the third point is to delegate, not abdicate, and what I mean by that is like, give them opportunities to do things and give them the work, but don't just throw it at them and walk away and expect them to figure it all out.

Speaker 1:

Like you want to give some confines of structure around it and deadlines and goals and some something to work with.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Well, I was going to agree and say I did that. Or here you go and you expect that team member who's new, and then you're mad at them because they didn't get it.

Speaker 1:

And I would say the last thing is opportunities for growth.

Speaker 2:

For sure. Super important, yeah that one.

Speaker 1:

We're out of time already Are we yeah, so I would say we can dig more into this on the next, next episode right team building well, maybe not team building, but, like you, know what opportunities for growth look like, how to keep people with you like how to create an environment that people want to be a part of.

Speaker 2:

I like that, yeah a winning environment because it took a while yeah, I mean we've done a lot of things wrong.

Speaker 1:

I think think this was good.

Speaker 2:

I think it was great.

Speaker 1:

If you like, give us a thumbs up, follow us, check us out. So team building, it's not for everyone, but it has some great benefits. And don't jump in too quick. Don't do it just because you want to take advantage or be lazy and get out of production. Building a team is it for impact, not ego. Yes, and the right people can change your life, that's true. So hire slow, hire slow, fire fast, but train well. That's a good one.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if we necessarily always do that.

Speaker 1:

You know, I think I've gotten better on that over the years.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of truth in that, just that one statement.

Speaker 1:

And leadership starts with leading yourself. Yeah, like I think, I absolutely think you have to walk the walk. I believe that but I could say, like I don't just sit back and say, well, I do this and I do that, and then I don't do it. No, I'm out there slinging, just like you guys are, yeah, and I think it's super important that.

Speaker 2:

That's what makes me that's what makes everybody respect that person as a leader.

Speaker 1:

They've been there, done that, doing it and they're right there with us. I noticed that we have a lot of themes every single week that kind of come through and I hear the same ones here. So I can't wait to hear some of those tidbits and see them out there. So comment like follow give us questions. Next week we're going to talk more and we hope to see you there. All right, bye, bye, thanks.