Do Epic Shit

"I Got Called the Ice Queen": Real Talk on Leadership's Tough Decisions

• Colleen Basinski & Kimberly Neill • Season 1 • Episode 4

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We explore what leadership truly means and how to effectively navigate the complexities of leading others through both challenges and successes.

• Rookie leadership mistake: trying to do everything yourself instead of investing time to train others
• Being relatable as a leader requires having walked in your team members' shoes
• Leadership requires both getting in the trenches with your people and making tough decisions
• Leading through crisis demands respecting different perspectives while maintaining core values
• Finding the balance between vulnerability and strength is essential for effective leadership
• Setting clear standards for behavior protects your team culture and environment
• Leadership isn't just about production metrics but how people treat each other
• Great leaders ask questions that help people discover solutions rather than just giving answers
• When you genuinely care about what drives your team members, you can lead them more effectively
• Leadership takes courage and isn't for the faint of heart

Work hard, be kind, care about your people, ask lots of questions, know that it's not going to be easy, but it is going to be worth it.


💡 Lessons we’ve learned about balancing it all—sometimes successfully, sometimes… not.

If you’re out here trying to do EPIC SH*T, this one’s for YOU. Hit play, tag a friend, and let’s do this thing together! 👇

🎧 Listen now on Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music & APPLE Podcasts!

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🎙️ Hosted by: Colleen Basinski & Kimberly Neill

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Speaker 1:

I've done this class 42 times, okay, well, how about you pick a new class? Eight, woo-hoo.

Speaker 2:

We own fire today. Well, hey, epic Humans, woo, hey, that's a pretty good one. Right, you are Epic Human.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Do Epic Shit, the podcast where we dive into life, business, real estate and a real impact. I'm Colleen Pazinski, I'm Kim Neal and today we're talking about leadership, what it actually means this is a good one. What it actually means the lessons you learn by doing it, the wins and of course the fails, yep. Everything that shapes who we become as leaders. Whether you're running a company, leading a team or just stepping into your power, this episode is packed with insights to help you lead with confidence oh, it is a good one.

Speaker 2:

I'm excited for this one, I am ready.

Speaker 1:

Also reminder if you're loving the show, make sure you subscribe, share it with your crew and leave us a review. It helps us reach more epic people like you. Oh, how about the hate mail?

Speaker 2:

we did get some hate mail we did get some hate mail, few things that's okay.

Speaker 1:

So mail A few things, that's okay.

Speaker 2:

So let's just dive in. Are you ready to dive in? I am, I am, let's do it.

Speaker 1:

So have you ever faced a moment where your leadership was seriously tested Of?

Speaker 2:

course. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I can think of a few.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, me too, I mean think about it Like over the years, as we're running the different offices and we're building these teams and the things that we had in, like people came and went right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, they sure did. I think this is a great topic for you. Great, I'm going to get all the questions. I think this is a great topic. I mean you've been in quite a few leadership roles Different.

Speaker 1:

Well, there were plenty of times where I felt like I could do it all myself, where I'm just like running on pure adrenaline alone, like I'm just powering through and going through, I mean working until three, four in the morning just trying to do it all.

Speaker 1:

And really I think when you are leading, there's a lot of balancing involved really between not only picking the right people to get into business with and who to delegate and who to give responsibility to, but also how you lead those people, how you motivate those people and how you treat them or how they treat you back. I was just going to say I've had some people role model, some really great leadership for me, and I've had some people role model, some really poor leadership for me. I mean you too.

Speaker 1:

Think about it, you were on the leadership council of one of our companies together, Like so you have some. Really, you were a leader, you led a team, you were growing a team, lots of different things. What's a rookie leadership mistake you made? I think you just said it doing it all yourself.

Speaker 2:

You're in leadership, but you're doing it all yourself. And for me, it wasn't that I didn't think people were equipped or qualified, it was I just thought honestly I'm just going to be honest I didn't want to take the time out to actually teach and train people, I just wanted to do it, just so I didn't have to stop, train, do. But then I was the first one to criticize Like, oh my God, they didn't do it. They didn't do it as good as me. Well, because I didn't take the time out to train and do the thing and put the trust in people that they have it.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think that I think you hit a good point there. So there's a bunch of different steps. It's about choosing the right people, but it's also investing the time and the energy and helping to develop them into great team members, great employees, great agents, great leaders themselves. Because, as we were growing offices, it wasn't just about the agents we brought in and investing in them and teaching them how to grow their teams, but we're also multiple offices, having people then who could lead leaders, which was very interesting, and I got some good stories I'm going to share in just a little bit, so let's spill some tea.

Speaker 1:

So what was your first leadership role? How?

Speaker 2:

did it feel ALC? It was definitely an agent leadership, but we had a committee, we had, you know, there was a bunch of us with a lot of great learning lessons, I think. So I think that was, first of all, like you're trying to lead, you know your peers in your office and I think, in order to be a good leader, you have to been in that role, been in like a walk. Yes, bottom line, you had to have walked the walk in order to be able to relate to people and lead people and help people.

Speaker 1:

I really feel like that's a mistake. So I've taught leadership classes and courses and been certified to teach this and whatever, and I feel like that's kind of a misnomer that you don't have to have done it before in order to be a good leader, which you know. I've heard lots of gurus say that. I think that, from a perspective standpoint, it really helps you keep some humility and also be more understanding of the person that was. That's in that role that you're leading, If you've been there before and you've walked in their shoes before.

Speaker 2:

I agree with that. I mean, I think we've seen a lot of leaders come and go just in big companies, and no, they didn't have to sell you know $30 million or $40 million in real estate to be a good leader. But it sure helps.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think there's a To be relatable. I would agree with you. I think there's a. It's almost like a complicated algorithm of experience and also investment in your learning and your growth, and it's got to be a combination of both, because there's people out there that have been really successful salespeople and they are shit leaders. True.

Speaker 1:

Very much Like they're trying to grow this team or this business and I'm like, omg, I would never, never, right, yes. But also on the flip side, I think there's people that, like, have studied all this and read all these books and you can probably think of a few people that I'm talking about that they just are operating off of theory and they've never actually sold a house, or and they're trying to tell me how to go out and do an appointment and if you've never been there.

Speaker 2:

I'm just going to be completely honest Can't do it hit and I don't want to sound like, oh, but you're gonna sit up there and tell me I should do a, b and c to have a successful business. I'm all for that like please tell me you know how to do better and how to be better but, how do you sit and tell me to be better, do better when you don't, when you haven't been there?

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think for me that's been a double edged sword, because there have been some times where I've been hesitant to act in my leadership roles because like, oh, I don't know if I've really done that before, so I don't feel almost that imposter syndrome that we were talking about before, like I don't feel confident enough in my own ability to lead someone else to do this because I don't want to be that imposter and at the same time, like I also, sometimes you just have to, as a leader, I think, make the decision, take the action and stand up and show up confident, because if you're not, you'll run right all over you.

Speaker 1:

I agree with that Sure, if I'm looking back at my leadership journey early on, since you asked the question, yep.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, tell us.

Speaker 1:

You know, I would say like when I started running an office but before you knew me at that office I actually was a managing broker of another office and I did have to do it all along. I was an island out there and I was writing content for classes and running meetings and just doing it on the fly and I didn't have, I didn't know what I was doing, but I did know I was there with my people all the time and I feel like probably lesson number one is, or takeaway number one is, honestly be there with your people, care about your people and get get dirty with them, so to speak, like roll up your sleeves and help dig and you earn that respect?

Speaker 2:

don't you think Like, if I don't see you in every day and I don't mean you personally, but as a lady who's showing up every day or most of the time, and I don't see that person there with me in the trenches or understand what I'm saying, how do you listen to them?

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, and I think I've flip-flopped back and forth from being in the trenches to then being hardcore. I mean, you know the story right about when I had to. So we had some high standards that we were held to from our corporate offices and you know like I needed people to perform at a really high level and I had to fire a lot of people. I mean, I'm thinking about the standards you had in the office. Well, in real estate, office is an interesting that's the word I'm looking for an interesting dynamic, correct. Yeah, dynamic is great Because you have employees, right, so you have like assistant manager, coaches and staff and things like that.

Speaker 1:

But then you have a bunch of agents who are independent contractors, who they don't have to do anything you tell them to do. So you have to develop your leadership skills pretty quickly. They'll just flock somewhere else, like they'll just like give me my license, I'm gone, right. True, so it was a balancing act between both, and I think it was, but I'm just thinking of, like, some of the people that I put into management roles with me and I hate using the term management and people say, oh, what's a leader versus a manager? And a leader does this and a manager just has a title, but I mean, there's a lot of crossover between them both, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 1:

Sure, but I can remember one time where I had someone that I think my biggest flaw I'm backing up now is I want it for people and I believe in it, and I want it for them more than they want it for themselves, and so I give people more of a benefit of a doubt because I'm like this person that is like, oh, you know, I want to give this person a chance and I want to lift them up and make them the example story. Right, we know. But I remember one time, you know, we had these standards that we had to hit, and you know I couldn't do it myself.

Speaker 2:

I couldn't do it on myself, so you know as someone who is on the agent in the leadership council.

Speaker 1:

You know I couldn't do it myself. I couldn't do it all myself. So you know, as someone who is on an agent in the leadership council, you're seeing me having this person or people that weren't hitting the standards, and then how are you going to follow me as a leader if I'm not holding my standards to the other people? Right, like it's incongruent. So I had to fire this person and I got called every name in the book, including my wonderful nickname that stuck with me for several years. You know which one it is? Yes, I do.

Speaker 2:

What is?

Speaker 1:

it. It is the Ice Queen. Ice Queen, yeah, so, and that floated around for a while, but I think what happens is we have these knee jerk reactions. So then, the next role that I was in in the next company, which was my own company, I was like, well, I'm not going to be like that. I was like, well, I'm not going to be like that, I'm going to be too soft. And so it's so far in the other direction, where I had people, basically, you know, walk all over me and try to steal business from me. So I think you know, being a leader, it's a fine line that you're toting and how you show up, people are watching every single day.

Speaker 2:

I agree with that. You do watch.

Speaker 1:

I watch, we all watch.

Speaker 2:

Can you think of a time that you were in over your head as a new leader?

Speaker 1:

I think, more in over my head with a team. Well, I mean, you're leading a team that's a leader.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. When I had my own team, I felt drowning, Like I was drowning. You get into this business because I think you said something you want it more for people than they want it for themselves, and I feel like we do. We go in head first and we want it so bad and this is what you do and this is how you do it. And go, go, go, go. And some people just aren't there. They're just not there and you're, you know, spending money and I was taking less money and you know you're hitting these numbers, these high numbers, and people are like, oh my God, you're so good and your team is so good. Really, I was making less money running a team than I would have if I was to stay with me and one other person.

Speaker 1:

But you're still leading when you only have one other person. Like, even if you just have an assistant or even your clients.

Speaker 2:

you're leading your clients, but I think you have a tendency to pay more attention when you have just one other person, or you pay attention a little more and give them a little more.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think there's a piece of you that's taken out every person you lead and I remember one of the things that I learned was like there's this kind of hierarchy I don't know if hierarchy is the right word, but this where you can only have so many people that you can lead before you have no capacity left to take care of the things you need to take care of, and so it can't be one leader that has like 400 people that are reporting to you, but you can be a leader who has other people that are reporting to you.

Speaker 1:

The kind of sensitive thing is and I did this, I remember this. So we had this thing where, like, I was the team leader of the office and I was only supposed to interact with the top 20 percent, right, right. So I mean, I, I totally screwed up this. This girl came up to me and she runs up to me in the hallway and I was on my way to the meeting and she's like I have a question and I was like you need to go talk to so and so about that I have to talk to, and I could just see the look on her face when I said it. Yeah, like I made her feel like a piece of shit, yep, and I immediately stopped and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Like I knew that the model that they were teaching us, in theory, it was great.

Speaker 1:

But in reality you still have to make people feel important Because, at the end of the day, that's all we have is how we treat each other.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Why do you think I was? I used to be the busy bi fella. I knew everybody when I was heavy into coming in the office I mean this, you know, pre-covid and things when everybody was there in the office and when we came in all the time, a friend of mine who loved the culture, loved what I had to do to help, and she had one of the leaders in the office that she went up to after class. They taught the class, you know, and then went up after they completely brushed her off, completely said do A, b and C and I have to go, and she was so mortified that she came to me and said I'm leaving and left.

Speaker 1:

Completely, took her license and left. I think we need to be conscious, as leaders, how we're making people feel Because here's the thing production or whatever, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, we're still human beings.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I really do thrive off of camaraderie and the vibe what we talked about last week that makes me thrive. I'm not an introvert. I don't like to be alone, want to be and I want to help you and I want to do I and I probably want to help more than somebody wants help, and I think I think that's okay though I think it's okay to push people.

Speaker 1:

That's part of leadership too. It's like how are you pushing people to show up to be their best every day?

Speaker 2:

the thing that makes me happy or puts a smile on my face is when I see them doing better. There really is. This industry really has a lot to offer.

Speaker 1:

This industry, this real estate business that we're in, has the unlimited potential to achieve whatever you want. Is there any book or course or experience that you had that made a significant impact on your leadership philosophy?

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, there's been a couple. I've done numerous classes, as you know. I think we all have A zillion. So early on in my career I would take class after class after class. There was one that stuck out that was early on. That was eight weeks or six weeks, I can't even remember. It was the very beginning. Just cut down basics and I think that grows you as an agent, as a person. And then there's a couple more as you start doing business.

Speaker 1:

There's a couple classes that get you ready for leadership and to be able to teach, I think reading and listening and watching and learning. I mean, we poured into class after class. I can remember, like Patrick Lencioni is one that stands out to me, like he had a lot of books about teamwork and leadership and I saw him speak once. Extreme Ownership is another one. That was the Navy SEAL Jocko. Oh, that was a good one, right? So he? I mean knowing that you have to take ownership first before you can expect other people to do it To me, that's one that stood out to me. No excuses, no blame shifting. If it's if something goes wrong, it's my fault. I'm the leader of the ship, right? Yep, let's talk a little bit. Let's change directions. Let's talk a little bit about authenticity versus authority, so like balancing being genuine with being respected.

Speaker 2:

I like this one with being respected. I like this one Again for me to be respected, you have to be genuine in my book, because you have to know what you're talking about. You have to understand it. So in order for me to be able, even for my own self, I feel like I have to know what I'm talking about. I have to be genuine, I have to be truthful in order to come across, to say, to speak, in order to be respected. So I think they go hand in hand.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would agree with that. I think you know I hear people say oh, you got to fake it till you make it, and I don't know if that's so.

Speaker 1:

I don't know if I necessarily. I think there's something to be said for confidence. I said, as I think, as a leader, you have to show up and you have to, you know, hold your head up high and be confident, but I don't think you have to be disingenuous. I think you can be genuine and be confident at the same time, so you can be kind, you can be genuine and you can still command respect, and I think the best leaders master both.

Speaker 2:

I agree. This is a good question for you how to do both.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, I mean, I think the best leaders are the ones that never think they know at all that they're always pouring into themselves so that they can pour into others. I would agree. If you've watched me over my career, I've always been a consummate learner, like learning, learning, learning.

Speaker 1:

Because you know as much as I feel like I know. I still feel like there's so much that I don't know, and I think when you're willing to do that, you're willing to continue to pour in yourself and learn, at least from my belief system. I think that other people see that and they respect that. Yeah, the worst leaders to me are the ones that stand up there and think that they know it all. I cannot follow a know-it-all, even if what they're saying is true. If they act like a know-it-all, I'm like done. Turn it off. Yeah, I'm done so.

Speaker 1:

I think, at least for me that's been. You know, if you pour into yourself and you're constant learning and constantly growing and that doesn't mean going to the same old, tired classes over and over again, like when we've seen people that have I've done this class 42 times, okay, well, how about you pick a new class? Yeah, right, like and I'm not saying you can't learn something from a like they say you only learn 10% or you only absorb 10% of what you learn in a class. So maybe go back again and do it a couple of times. But sometimes a different perspective will help as well.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Right. I agree with that. It's just like from the same old classes. How many times that you take and then you shift gears and you go into a totally different atmosphere.

Speaker 1:

Or you take and then you shift gears and you go into a totally different atmosphere, or you know, and then you're like, oh, wow, well and I think the world is changing constantly too, like the world today is not the same as it was six months ago, a year ago, five years ago I mean think about it. Six years ago we didn't have COVID, like how different was everything in every way of how we do business. Completely different, right? Yeah, I mean all the technology that we have oh yeah, not for sure okay so we were just at a closing together yesterday, six years ago.

Speaker 1:

What would that closing have looked like? Absolutely, I agree. Both parties would have been in the room, both attorneys would have been in the room, everybody. It would have been a completely different vibe than what was there. It was just the buyers were there with their attorney, seller had already pre-signed, like everything was different. So if business is done differently, I think the way that you have that you lead has to be different too From a core values perspective, but from just growing yourself and learning things differently, yeah, and so forth, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I agree with that. Sure was different yesterday, huh.

Speaker 1:

Well, that, yeah, I mean it's. I was like, oh, you know, this is a little. I mean we had to go because we bring the keys and we were driving past there anyway an event to go to, but yeah it's a great segue to the next question I have is, which is leading through change and uncertainty. So give me an example of times you had to lead through challenges like business pivots or crises, and some strategies that maybe you use to keep people motivated during those.

Speaker 2:

I think COVID was huge. I think that switched my whole entire business, my whole entire life, and I'm sure for other people as well.

Speaker 1:

Well, I mean even just, and I don't want to get all political on here, so I'm not going to, we're not going to share political viewpoints, we're not one way or the other. Just the crises that we've seen in terms of one side versus the other and learning to lead when you have people that are polar opposites in viewpoints, Like I'm thinking about. When you brought up COVID, I'm thinking about, like, one of the offices that I had.

Speaker 1:

I had people that were very strong opinionated on one side and very strong opinionated on the other side and I had to learn a way to navigate through that to keep them all co-working in a mutually happy and safe and friendly environment.

Speaker 2:

I had clients too, when all that was, you know, coming about and blowing up and I think at that time, you know, people quit coming in the office. I dissolved my team, people went to other. You know, people quit coming in the office. I dissolved my team, people went to other you know other agencies and I was left standing there like okay, now what?

Speaker 1:

Well, we reconnected actually after that yeah. Because we had disconnected for a little bit, when I had left the one company, the one office I was at, yeah, opened my own office and I had.

Speaker 2:

At that point everybody had stopped coming in and you know you're down alone and you're kind of looking around like who's there to help? How are we navigating this? And there just wasn't, and I guess it's the. It was the uncertainty back then and I think what got us through?

Speaker 1:

because we actually grew as a company and that was happening, like we had people that didn't like how other people were leading or showing up as leaders, and they were like, okay, I'm going to come join you, I'm going to work with you. And I think for me, the key component in that was to understand that everyone can have a different opinion and you can still respect their opinion even if you don't agree with it. Stay true to your core values, like you, don't compromise on standards in your business, but it doesn't mean that we have to treat each other badly.

Speaker 1:

That we can respect each other's opinion and, as a leader, how you model and show up in that regard is everything Like not coming out with ultimatums or mandates or this, like, I think, asking more questions to understand viewpoints better. And maybe that just you didn't ask this question, but I'm just going to just share it with you. For me, I think, leadership I became a better leadership, a better leader, as I learned to become a better coach. Because in coaching, in coaching the people that, whether it was my agents or other leaders across the country or the world, I actually was coaching someone in the Middle East believe it or not an office out there, but when I was learning to become a better coach.

Speaker 1:

Coaching is all about asking questions, to dig deeper, to help someone, and I think, as a leader coaching leader is a more impactful and powerful and stronger leader, in my opinion, than a boss leader like someone who just comes in as a manager and bosses people around is not going to be as effective or impactful.

Speaker 1:

So if you're listening and you're thinking, okay, how can I show up as a better leader? I would say one ask more questions and really care about what's important to your people and then lead them through a learning experience instead of a bossing people around experience, absolutely, and we can all just be kind yeah Well, it's right here on my cup, yeah, work hard be kind, work hard, be kind, just be kind.

Speaker 1:

Even if you don't agree with them, we can still bow out and I think I really, truly believe that that's what caused us to continue to grow through that whole COVID debacle. And the craziness that was happening is that I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but that was hard Like learning to navigate that and you had people that were like I don't want to wear a mask, you better wear a mask. And like I don't want, I don't feel safe with this person, or or there's this happening and you know, stand over there and open the door over here.

Speaker 1:

But, even just kind of like the political and social violence. That was happening out there.

Speaker 1:

All of that was happening at once and we were trying to navigate all that and I think for me, the core thing was understanding that everybody has a right to their opinion. They don't have a right to make someone feel less than they don't have a right to force their opinion on someone else, but they still have a valid right to have that and you should care about how they feel, not force your feelings or opinions on someone, but still care about how they feel. I agree, and I think that made a huge difference.

Speaker 2:

It did make a huge difference.

Speaker 1:

Expect to go down that path.

Speaker 2:

I know me neither.

Speaker 1:

Biggest leadership win. So what's a proud leadership moment and what made it meaningful for you, your team or your business?

Speaker 2:

I think there's been a lot of small wins. I don't know if I remember a huge. I think for me well back then maybe not so much now, but I remember as menial as this sounds, I think, when you're in the everyday minutia of business and being with your team and people, I think being recognized for me was huge.

Speaker 1:

Like just small things. It's genuine human nature. People actually need that validation. I feel like it was.

Speaker 2:

Even I think I just said it not too long ago I go. Can I remember when we used to do the you know throw the paydays and you know give out stupid paper awards that I'd watch them make Just meant the world. It was a huge win, like, yay, we got. I remember Kristen, like hey, look at our team got this.

Speaker 1:

You know I've learned over the years that, not that you want to not pay people what they're worth. Absolutely. Pay people what they're worth If you can like. I mean, sometimes you just can't. The business can't sustain and you have to figure out ways. But you know, respect and honor people. But sometimes people will stay with you. They'll come to work with you because you care about them or they know you care. Recognize them, even if you can't afford to pay them as much as the next guy.

Speaker 2:

I agree Very much and it's nice to be appreciated. It's been just a little bit. I think that's a huge win in itself, just to be appreciated. Yeah, you have to pay the bills and you have to eat. It's nice to be appreciated.

Speaker 1:

What about vulnerability? Think that leaders should be vulnerable with their teams. I know exactly what you're going to say. I'm thinking of an example right now Extent. I think that I asked you the question and now I'm just answering it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, just answer, do you?

Speaker 1:

remember the one person that you were talking about. Like you went in to have a coaching session, session or leadership session and then they just start crying and telling you like all their problems.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Was that what you were thinking about when you said to it?

Speaker 1:

I remember you coming to me, like Colleen. I cannot have this person leading me or mentoring me or coaching me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I get it. I get it and I'm glad, but I you should be paying me, I'm paying you, you should be paying me and you just you're yes.

Speaker 1:

So I think that's when you said to a point, but I also think that there's value and transparency. Yeah, sharing your story. I've shared some things on here and I haven't even even really started to open up fully yet, but I've shared some of those stories with my team and they know kind of the some of the things I've been through because, well, and I remember one of the leadership roles that I was walking into, one of our leaders came in and he talked about the story of where he started and how he built his way and where he came from, and it gave me hope and inspiration and opportunity to strive for, gave me something to grow towards. I think that you know, it's just like anything else.

Speaker 2:

Everything we're talking about today is like there's don't be an extremist right, like that's the bottom line, right, like Don't you lose, like I. I used to teach class and I used to start. It just reminds me of something I used to start it off saying that you know I was a stay at home mom, you can do this, you know like you can do this you can. So I think there is something to be said to let everybody know where you started, where you came from, and how much you can grow and you know what you can do.

Speaker 1:

I would say that being vulnerable to a point is good, because you do want to be authentic, yes, but also people don't want to be authentic. Yes, but also people don't want to follow a weak leader.

Speaker 2:

I was, you took the words right out of my mouth, literally came to mind Like no, I don't, I can't.

Speaker 1:

I've stood up in front of a room and I've told a story, where I've had a tear or two shed, but for the most part you don't see me running around crying about this or crying about that, like if I put my big girl's pants, my girl pants on I said this the other day and I get back on and I go out and do what needs to get done. So I think people want, and I think leadership is about role modeling the behaviors that you want to see in the people that you're leading. So if you can't, I mean leadership's a lot like parenting.

Speaker 2:

I thought of that when we first, when we just first sat down today. I thought, oh, it's just like parenting your kids, like leading your children. I mean you lead them to do you want to. You want to lead them and to be the best human that they can be.

Speaker 1:

You want to empower them to be self-sufficient, but still respect and follow what you've taught them. And it makes me think of another leadership lesson, which is whether you delegate something or you abdicate something, because people are like, oh well, I just gave them that to do. Well, did you delegate it and give them direction and guidance and some parameters? Or just abdicate, where you're just like, just take care of this and so, um, I mean, being a parent is a lot like that too. You wouldn't just tell your kids, okay, figure it out, go eat. No, you'd be like, okay, there's this, I put this for you, you have this blah blah. So you set them up for success right, and then you'll have success and it makes your life easier. So some of the work that you do on the front end to lead them and to share with them and to give them guidelines and so forth, I think is really helpful.

Speaker 2:

And that is huge Like you started off saying, like when we sat down, you started off saying that you know what are some of your downfalls or what is your biggest mistake. And I said it is not taking the time to invest and teach you, just do it yourself.

Speaker 1:

On the flip side, don't micromanage. True, we have a friend that is a huge micromanager.

Speaker 2:

It's brutal.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

It's brutal. So great point because yes.

Speaker 1:

And I don't want anyone micromanaging me. If you're breathing over my shoulder, get the hell away from me. Like, just tell me what I need to do, give me some parameters and guidelines around it. So if you want people like me to work with you, then you're going to have to give me some goals, give me some guidelines. Don't just have me figure it all out on my own because it'll take me longer to get there.

Speaker 1:

Give me some guidelines, give me some goals. What are the goalposts along the way? That's another one. How about leaders who are constantly moving the goalposts so you feel like you can never succeed with them?

Speaker 2:

I felt like that, a lot Like what is your goal? This year we set yearly goals and it was something atrocious Isn by the disheartening it and by the fourth year I was like what?

Speaker 1:

like.

Speaker 2:

I no, I can't, like I can't. So I think they have to be um realistic, because then you do go down a rabbit hole like, oh, I'm not good enough, I didn't hit my goals. I haven't hit my goals in three years. Why? Why am I doing this?

Speaker 1:

This is stupid Blah blah, blah, blah blah, but yet you were growing every year, and yet you didn't feel good about it no, not at all. And so, to me, that's not the kind of leader I want to be. I want my people to be pushed and grown, but I also want them to life on this planet. Right yeah, you only have one life on this planet, and if you feel miserable and you feel put down and you feel like shit all the time, how is that?

Speaker 2:

It's not conducive to what we're doing.

Speaker 1:

It's definitely not epic.

Speaker 2:

No, for sure, right, yeah no.

Speaker 1:

So I don't know. I just want to summarize some of the things that we talked about so far and then we'll kind of go into the next section here. So I think leadership is leading by example, you bet. I think it's about being kind Sure, it's about that middle ground, it's understanding that there's different perspectives, asking good questions.

Speaker 2:

That's a good one.

Speaker 1:

Right being a good listener to your people.

Speaker 2:

That's huge one, right, being a good listener to your people, that's huge too. I didn't realize till you just said that, like you know listening about. You know what we just talked about, about political views, like why do you feel that way? Or why does this feel like you have to learn to be kind, listen to understand.

Speaker 1:

I think very few people even know what side of the political spectrum I'm on or where I am, because I don't talk about it, because I am more of a person like I don't really care what side you're on. If you're a good person, you're a good person. I agree, and I love being around people who are like that.

Speaker 2:

I agree, I feel like you there and there are some good points on both sides and you do have to listen. And I'm thinking about a client that you know just was complete opposite, but sat there and we had a discussion for an hour during an inspection. It was great, it kind of opened my eyes. That was a good point.

Speaker 1:

How about celebrating the wins? How do you celebrate with your team or I?

Speaker 2:

think we always correct me if I'm wrong. I think we always did a good job with celebrating. I feel like a lot of times in the office.

Speaker 1:

I mean, we just started doing. No, here's the thing when you know better, know better, do better absolutely as a leader, and as a person and as a human, when you know better do better right, and here's the thing we're always learning. I started out at the beginning is like at one way to be a good leader is to constantly grow yourself.

Speaker 2:

Sure you can fill your bucket so you can pour into the buckets of the people that you're leading you think and I don't mean to cut you up don't you think that all these years really of of learning and making mistakes and growing, really you take all of that and I feel like that's kind of what we're growing here now, oh for sure, and harvesting?

Speaker 1:

oh, I, like, I am so excited about what we're building now in our group, in our our network in our organization, because I get to take all the stuff that was shoved down my throat, sift through it all and say this I liked and this I liked and this worked and that was shit. And it's going over there Like and kind of. You know, next week we're going to talk about teams and building a team and what's it's like to be on a team and what's it's like to lead a team. So to talk about teams and building a team and what's it's like to be on a team and what's it's like to lead a team. So it's kind of a good segue from this.

Speaker 1:

But I've had some fire, a lot of people that I didn't want to fire, like people that were genuine good friends of mine. I had to fire my niece but she didn't. They didn't talk to me for years, like it was. It was heartbreaking and devastating and here I'm labeled as the ice queen, right, like I wanted to, wanted to do that, like I want to just make people cry, but I don't think people.

Speaker 2:

Let's just say this I don't think people understood that it was people above you and the standards that they tried to hold you to, or that they held you to and the standards above them. It really all did. I was there. I know you saw behind the eyes. A lot of the stuff that was done and said was from your bosses or people above you, and that's part of being a leader.

Speaker 1:

A leader is sometimes you have to do things that are uncomfortable, sure, that you don't want to do. But also there were times where that's probably why I've got some other issues that I'm working through right now where you have to stand up if somebody's for something that you believe is not right, sure, like there were times where I was told you have to make your people do this, you have to make your people do that, and I'm like, no, I'm not doing it, right, yeah, that's stupid, I'm not doing it, or that's. You know, if you preach that you care family first and business later, then why are you going to push that on people? That's disingenuous, a lot of. If you preach integrity, but then you say one thing and do something else, that's not really integrity, sure. And so, you know, I've called a lot of people out on their shit in my journey and, as a result, you know, I got a little blackballed, a little bit.

Speaker 2:

A little.

Speaker 1:

But what I'm saying is like part of being a leader is um, you have to make tough choices, but also you have to stand up, sometimes even if you know you get kicked out of the leadership yeah, I think that I there's a lot kicked out of the circle you did, but sometimes it's not a circle you want to be in so going back to how you started this thing that we're building now that, um, you know we're part of an organization that their motto is work hard, be kind, you bet, so that aligns with the core values.

Speaker 1:

Now I've been part of other organizations where they have these core values that good, but people didn't follow. Now right. So, like walking the walk, I think is important also, um, us being able to build something where we can take these leadership lessons of you know, really getting rolling your sleeve up and getting down into it with the people and not just telling people what to do, but actually being in it with them. I think is important being kind, um, being kind I heard a leadership lesson once, or a leadership you know kind of quote, or whatever is like. A good leader gets down on your level, takes your hand and walks, yes, to the next spot. Doesn't just wave to you from above and say come on up, yeah, helping walk you along that path and that's how we learn that's how we learn I might not pick you up and carry you, but I will hold your hand and walk with you, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I feel like that helps you learn. It gets you all to the same place.

Speaker 1:

But I think, as a leader too, you also have to let people make mistakes. You have to give them permission, room to fail. Sure, and this is where I would argue with Bart a lot too, my husband, so he's like one of those. What do they call those people that are coaching from the sidelines in the football game, like the couch, the Monday morning coach, or whatever that can see from the sidelines, but you're not actually in there doing it right, there's a word for that. I'll think of it later.

Speaker 1:

You guys can make fun of me, comment and tell me what the word is that I'm thinking of what is the word yeah. But anyway, he would be like oh, you know you let him do this?

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

You have to give people. If you have an environment that's constantly has people living in fear of failure, you're not going to give them room to blossom and grow.

Speaker 2:

I think that's a, that's a lesson learned, because I could yeah, I could think of some instances that that always was not. You know, it was either this way or the highway. This way or the highway.

Speaker 1:

There's been a lot of good nuggets so far. I'm going to go back and listen to this and, like, reorganize them all into, like good talking points because, I feel like they might be a little scattered but they're good. What's a quality or skill you've developed as a leader? That is now you consider your superpower.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. That's a good one. It's a good question. I'll think of it probably when I'm eating popcorn tonight. You know I've learned so many throughout. I mean some good, some bad, but I feel like really.

Speaker 1:

Do you want me to tell you what your superpower is? Go?

Speaker 2:

ahead, because you're too humble sometimes.

Speaker 1:

That's a problem for you. You're like oh, I don't know, I'm going to be humble.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm going to tell you some of your superpowers, please, because I can, I'll tell you First of all.

Speaker 1:

even when you're being harsh with someone, you're very kind.

Speaker 2:

I was just going to say understanding.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you are very like. You can tell someone like that outfit is hideous and have them smiling and hugging you for it. Yeah, like, and you don't say it that way. Like, whatever it is, you can be very firm and harsh with people and do it in the most kind manner that I've ever seen anyone do it. You are a very kind person, but a very but. You don't sugarcoat that, you don't hold back Like, you don't lie to them, but you're very kind and that is a super hard and I wish I had that, because I'm like I'm like all in their face and then they're crying and I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. Let me give you a hug, right?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I feel like understanding a lot of the things that I've learned over the years. Is that I mean? Because, god, you've seen me, I'm lunatic?

Speaker 1:

Kim comes barreling down the hallway and I'm like come in my office, close the door, like I know she's got something yeah. But you also knew that as a leader. Here's another example that you could come to me as your leader and it was a safe place and we could close the door and you could vent and you could get that out, and then I would help you walk through that and then you would be okay, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I think that was for me. It was many years of like that, like hothead, blow my head off or blow somebody's head off. But then you learn the consequences of doing that to people always don't make you feel good and you don't get the outcome that you were searching for. So why not approach it with understanding, although you're stern and you need it done. But I felt like all the times that I let loose came unglued, really didn't work, and then I was the one fucking going home like ugh.

Speaker 2:

Well, it wasn't serving you, it wasn't serving me Like I was so mean and that was terrible and would I want somebody to do that. At least you didn't get nicknamed the ice queen.

Speaker 1:

That is true, but I think that here's so. There's another thing where you're, when you're in a quote unquote titled leadership role, you're under a microscope and a spotlight.

Speaker 2:

Sure, that was definitely. I think you said it, you did, you said you were held to these standards and I think your job rode on those. You didn't do those or hit those. You didn't have a job.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, which is also and I know there were certain ways that I was made to feel that I never wanted to put someone else in that position. So, as a leader, I've learned to manage through that. So there's ways that you can communicate to people, and I think if you come from a place of, first of all, you have to know what's important to people too. I would think so that was another thing. As a leader, I knew why you were doing what you. Why did you work there? Like, why did, why were you a part of our organization? Like what was important to you, what was your goal or your dream, or your why, as they call it right? Like what's important to you? Your kids are important to you, being able to have a career and still be a great mom For you.

Speaker 1:

I'm just giving an example, but every single person that I led. I knew something about them and what was important to them in order to be a good leader. Now, if I didn't, then I felt like I was failing as a leader, and so sometimes I'd have to take notes, but I also was blessed with a good memory so I could remember things about people Used to. The older I get, the harder it gets, I know.

Speaker 2:

I get it.

Speaker 1:

But I think knowing what's important to people and knowing what drives them. And so I think, as a leader, probably one of the first things you should do is sit down and get to know your people, get to know what's important to them, get to know what makes them tick, what drives them. Why are they part of your organization? Why do they want to be there? No-transcript. There was another quote that said people don't work with you because they're obedient. People work with you because they see you as a vehicle to their own goals and dreams.

Speaker 2:

I agree with that. I'm thinking about look at how big like our company has grown, look how big Real has grown the past year. And we were at where were we? Downtown? And the president was like hi, colleen, how's things going? Like that's? You know what I mean? Like you, even though there's 20,000 people 26,000 now.

Speaker 1:

See, when we started, there was like 5,000. I remember it's grown so fast.

Speaker 2:

I remember talking like real. I never heard of them Like they had 6,000 people. Like real, I never heard of them Like they had 6,000 people and I was like what do we?

Speaker 1:

do what, but I mean it's nice. But I think it's that philosophy, that's the work hard, be kind philosophy. It's understanding who the people are that you're in business with and really creating an environment of where you care about people, where it's collaboration over competition and all those things. So I think your core value is in what you start with and I keep talking over you. I'm sorry, that's okay, I'm just getting excited. No, that's the topic I feel passionate about.

Speaker 2:

I know, but I also think you're good at it. I also think this is what where you flourish, see, thanks, yeah, and that's coming from somebody that watches, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

You're very kind, thank you.

Speaker 2:

That I am.

Speaker 1:

Your superpower For me a superpower, I would say, that, like something that I've developed over the years, is, I would say, asking great questions to really understand what helps people tick. Yep, and even questions, not just to learn about them, but questions that lead them down the path to get them to their goals. Tell me more about that. Well, that's actually a statement, not a question but it is a statement. That is a question. Yeah, I use that one a lot.

Speaker 2:

You do.

Speaker 1:

But I think that's important because if you can understand what makes people tick, you're going to lead them down that path of getting them where they want to go, I agree. It's almost like science, like you're dissecting something. I agree.

Speaker 2:

It's almost like science, like you're dissecting something.

Speaker 2:

It's like science taking things apart and seeing how they worked. That's why I love what we're doing here. I love it because it is about understanding. You know the people that we're with. You know, once you can understand them, you can speak to them in the way that they want to be. You know you're going to get what you need. I think it's all about give and take as well too, because if we don't understand the people that we're with, then how do you grow or how do you move forward? I mean, we're all so different, you know different personalities and you know different humans. But if we don't know how to speak to them and we're not kind and you know, I want to know what they're doing. I want to know what Mike's doing. How did he get four listings this week? How did he get doing that?

Speaker 1:

What about standards? How do you feel like standards play into this?

Speaker 2:

It's a huge part of it. Standards I think we all need them.

Speaker 1:

As a leader? Do you think how you display your standards or what your standards are like impact? You show up as a leader or how people view you as a leader.

Speaker 2:

Yep. And that all goes back to for me, I think people are always watching. So if you don't have some type of standard or and I just don't mean like goals, like standards in business, like I mean just in my, my daily life Well it's interesting.

Speaker 1:

So I was wondering if you were going to go there, because I've heard people say, well, if you don't enforce your standards, then you don't have any and blah blah. But I think they're trying to force production standards on people and I believe this is something that took me a long time in leadership to learn over the years. I believe that it's not my business or my job or my right to force my goals on someone else, so I can't say, well, if you're going to be on my team, you have to have 45 deals this year. Whatever, that's not my right.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't make you feel good.

Speaker 1:

But I can have. I saw a girl I know, jen, who had a video on this on her Instagram the other day about how she runs her team and her business, and saying that, like these are independent contractors that you're dealing with too, so you can't necessarily have you have to be in the office nine to five and you have to do that. That's actually illegal because we're you know, irs guidelines are 1099 versus whatever. So I'm not an accountant, I'm not an attorney, but you can consult with one to find out. But what I'm saying is I've seen people that lead their team like, oh, this is our standard and this is our standard, and this is our standard and my standard is more about how you treat people, how we treat each other. Like we had a girl on our team who's gone now, yep, and she was constantly complaining through the cancer um, she tried to not pay someone a referral.

Speaker 1:

That was like there were some things that she did and I'm like the person that will give you a chance, right, like maybe you don't know. So I, I had it and I had to put it in writing because that's a great hack. Uh, chat gtp has made me a little more kind because sometimes, like they'll tease me, they're like, oh, colleen's angry typing what's going on, right, all the buttons like I'm I'm gonna fly off the handle, so I'll type something up and then I'll put it in chat and I'm like, can you make this a little kinder make?

Speaker 2:

this perfect and I make you baldo.

Speaker 1:

Do that too, because he's like I'm like you made the poor virtual assistants cry. I'm like, can you be nicer, please like. And he doesn't mean it that way, like his heart's in the right place. But so that's a lesson, a leadership lesson for all of us. So chat um can help us like soften our words a little bit sometimes, but anyway I had to put in for this girl.

Speaker 1:

She was, she was nasty very much so she was not nice and she you know I'm sure I'm the bad guy and I'm okay. So that's part of being leadership. Is you have to be okay being the bad guy sometimes too? Like, all right, that's fine, kim can be the nice one, I'll be, the bad guy. That's how it goes right, but I had to lay it out like okay, we've given you an opportunity. Our standard is is that we don't run around complaining to everyone who will listen if you don't like it. Nobody's forcing you to stay here leave.

Speaker 1:

I am totally. There will be no hard feelings if you want to go. I only want to work with people who want to work with me and who we can have a not just fun together but grow together, learn together, have success together. And if you don't want to be a part of that, just go. But I put it, I was like, hey, here's your chance. You take a few days and you think about it. Here's our standards for behavior, basically, and how we treat you know how we treat the office, how we treat the environment, because, also your environment, you have to protect that environment if you want to have success in your business right, I agree.

Speaker 1:

And so I laid that all out and she's like, oh, no, no, no, I want to stay. And then, like three weeks later, she slithered out the door and didn't even say anything. Well, I think that which was fine.

Speaker 2:

I was like well, and I think that goes, we bring in to our organization.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's where you're a little bit better than me on that, because you're like more well even, but you're softer than Bart and Ubaldo. They're like no.

Speaker 1:

I know they're, oh, no, no no, and I'm like well, let's give them a chance, because here's the thing too is it the environment that's making them show up like that? Because, like, if you're in a crappy, shitty environment with a lot of backstabbing and negativity, are you just being that way because that's what you're around? And if we plucked you out of that environment and put you in ours, would you show up differently? Maybe, and, and so I always give people the benefit of the doubt, but the minute you start bringing some of that toxicity into our environment, you got to go Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I've seen it both ways. I've seen it where it's been really really good and then I've seen where it's been really, really bad and toxic and you're like.

Speaker 1:

You're right, it is like a cancer it is. I said that from the beginning.

Speaker 2:

I'm're right, it is like a cancer, it is I said that from the beginning I'm like.

Speaker 1:

This is like a cancer.

Speaker 1:

It just grows and it makes everybody yucky and it's funny because the one person that brought that person in after they left she was like, oh, I'm so glad she's gone because she was afraid it was making her look bad. I know I was like, no, you're fine, it wasn't you, yeah. So I think standards on conduct and behavior and how people act. I've had a few agents I had to fire other years. I remember one that and like even one that I had to fire because of you know just vulgar things they were posting out there in the world like derogatory comments, and then I was told I couldn't fire the person, even though I did. And then I was called a lot of names because I fired the person. And then I was called a lot of names because I fired the person. And then people that you know how you show up is a reflection on the rest of the people, like abuse of drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 1:

I had to fire people like that and I have the biggest soft spot for that, because I have family members who struggle with addiction every single day. I've got plenty of them. I mentioned my ex, who's now deceased, who had huge addiction issues, and so I have a soft spot for that. But you also have to realize how it impacts the other people in the business. So I can help, you get help, but you can't stay and be in that way. Yeah, be that cancer or be that toxic.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. These are good ones at the end. These are really good, like the tail end of this was better than the first half.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I hope people will listen all the way through. I know, yeah, it makes you go down rabbit like. There's so much I can say about it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there are some good bunny trails once you get the dialogues flowing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I just go down the list in my head of all the people I've had to get out of business with.

Speaker 2:

Is it because of? Do you think? Let me just ask you this Do you think, over the years, that you, the people being in leadership, the people that you've let go or that have been removed? Do you think it was? Let me just ask you do you think it was personal or do you think it?

Speaker 1:

was you mean? Do I? Have I fired people because of personal, like I just didn't like them?

Speaker 2:

or Maybe because other people didn't like them.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think it depends. So we're going through a lot of different history here, right? So like when I was in a role where I had to be the middleman and the bad guy, like they talk about you. You know who's the hatchet man.

Speaker 1:

I've had to be the hatchet man for a lot of time and there were people that I genuinely cared about and genuinely liked. But I was told either you get rid of this person or so. So that's happened. But I've also. I've had some people that we've gotten out of business with, that in in a team role or a team capacity, who I'm still great friends with and who I've like a lot of my best friends now are people that I've coached over the years or who worked for me.

Speaker 1:

So, like one of my really good friends, I'll give you a shout out Anita. Like we got out of business together but it was because she needed the right opportunity for her, right, and we're like best friends still and she works at a completely different company, yeah, and she's grown and flourished in that role and I'm so proud of her. But if I had kept her in the role that she was in with me, like we just had a conversation and we were both crying and I'm like is this really the right thing for you? And she's like no, it's not.

Speaker 1:

And and the environment sucked for both of us to be honest with you, like neither one of us are in that business anymore, in that particular company anymore, right, but so I think there's plenty of people, I think the number one leadership lesson that I'm like. Every time we do one of these episodes, I feel like there's like a thread that runs through it. At the end I'm like ah, that's it. So like last week it was like who's in your circle, right? This week it's like having honest conversations and really understanding what's important to people and asking great questions Like that. If you do that, you can lead your way through anything. And I think you have to have some confidence too, though. Sure, because if you don't have, if you're like all weak and timid and you can't like, right, but I don't think you can have tough conversations and ask questions and learn about people if you're weak and timid.

Speaker 2:

No.

Speaker 1:

I think you have to have confidence that what you're doing is valuable and that you're going to help people, and then you can kind of guide through that.

Speaker 2:

So I don't know if I answered your question or not, but I was just trying to find out like, or really just put it out there, that you know, sometimes we do things because we have to do that.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, there were people that I was fired, that I was told you have to fire this person, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I just kind of wanted to put it out there for everybody who's listening All the creepers that are listening. I feel like sometimes things were blown out of proportion and things said and maybe it necessarily wasn't.

Speaker 1:

And I will tell you there is not one person that I went home after. I had to let them go and then I felt like I did that. No, it genuinely hurt my heart every single time. Yep, Every single time, yeah.

Speaker 2:

There was a couple times I was like oh, yep, ouch, here we go. You know that, you think you know sitting back, or you know on the sidelines, like oh, Leadership is not for the faint of heart? No, it is not.

Speaker 1:

No, it's. You know. It wears on your heart deeply, especially if you're a leader who cares about your people. If you're just someone who's just stepping on people to climb your way up the ladder, maybe you don't care about all the people you step out along the way, but for me, it literally took a piece of a piece, a chunk of my heart, every single time like oh, and I don't think people know that.

Speaker 1:

Basically, yeah, pretty much you know, I will never forget that that girl's sitting in there and I'm sorry, you know she goes. You're not sorry, I'm like, I really am sorry. No, you're not, you're just the ice queen and I'm like, and everyone like, there's people.

Speaker 1:

We had glass windows around my office and everyone's like looking in the windows, through the glass, and I'm like, oh my gosh, and I felt bad. But you also, when you're running an organization, you have to be like I couldn't just say okay, no, forget it, but you go back on that one but sometimes each step on the journey takes you to the place you're meant to be next, so maybe it took that person to where they were supposed to be next.

Speaker 2:

I agree.

Speaker 1:

And maybe not. Some people don't handle rejection, and then they wallow in it and then I feel even worse about it.

Speaker 2:

I'm like oh did I do something to impact that person's future, I agree.

Speaker 1:

So I think lessons learned are there's ways to get into business with people and out of business with people. As a leader, sometimes I did it right, sometimes I did it wrong that we're learning about.

Speaker 1:

I think, well, yeah, and I think dive deeper into that a little bit more on the next episode too, when we talk about teams. Yeah, because we're going to talk about teams and kind of because I ran a team, I ran offices, solo agent, so I've like seen all the different perspectives and we're going to bring kristin on as a guest to talk about how she experienced it from the other end right, that should be interesting, like because she was on a couple different teams, including mine I think it's good to see different perspectives absolutely like what that feels like for those of you that are looking to build something or grow something.

Speaker 2:

I agree That'll be a good one.

Speaker 1:

So, final thoughts. What do you have to say about leadership in terms of final thoughts?

Speaker 2:

It's not for the weak.

Speaker 1:

No, it's definitely not for the faint of heart, that's for sure, actually, you know what to be courageous. You have to be courageous, you have to be strong, you have to be confident, you have to really be willing to take it on the chin a few times.

Speaker 2:

Well, going through this today really makes me think like do you really got to love what you do? Because it is not for the fainthearted. I'm just sitting here thinking like there's people that you've. You know what I mean. We talked that, we were friends with that, I that vacation together. They got the ex. Yeah, that I was like oh. And I'm sitting here thinking like, really it is not for the fainthearted.

Speaker 1:

Well, I will tell you and I don't I'm sure I've shared this before and maybe this is a good kind of closing way to kind of tie a bow on this is you said you really have to love what you do for me.

Speaker 1:

I know personally how much real estate changed my life forever me too and what that did for me as a single mom and then raising kids, and I could have easily just been scraping by and struggling for the rest of my life, until the rest of the days on my planet.

Speaker 1:

Maybe my kids would be okay, maybe not. I know how powerful that was. So for me, the driving force was if I could then pour that into other people and change the trajectory of their life and their future for them and their kids and whether they're a young parent or a single parent or just a person who's trying to get on the track, that's what drove me to take it on the chin when I needed to, or have that. Like when you have a powerful thing driving you that you can make a difference. Like first of all, obviously it was for my family like I wanted to do it for my family, but I could have went on selling on my own and done it for my family. That next step is because when you want to pay it forward, I think and so for me it was my way of paying it forward.

Speaker 1:

So there were a lot of times you're right that I got labeled the big bad wolf. Yeah, here comes colleen the big bad wolf. And it doesn't help when you have rbf. To begin with too, it's like I don't know if you guys noticed, but you know, you guys know what rbf is right, so I've already got that. And then they're like oh, she's kind of mean yeah, I heard it a it a lot.

Speaker 2:

It's called stoic. I think so For sure. Well, I think this was a good one.

Speaker 1:

It was a little deep, it was deep, it was deep, definitely deep. So I would just encourage any of you out there that are on your leadership journey and kind of taking your way Look at how you can show up as a leader, how you can still be authentic and be respected. Work hard, be kind, care about your people, ask lots of questions, know that it's not going to be easy, but it is going to be worth it. I think so, for sure.

Speaker 1:

And then you get to end up building something you really really love and be around people that you really really love and enjoy and that's for me where it's at.

Speaker 2:

That's where we are now. Yeah, we have a great organization.

Speaker 1:

Leadership is not for the faint of heart, God no. Well, if this episode resonated with you, hit the subscribe button and share it with your crew. Give us a review. It helps us reach more people doing epic shit. And if you've got a leadership lesson or story that changed the game for you, DM us, tag us on social.

Speaker 2:

We'd love to share your story on next week episode and just to hear yeah, I'd love to hear from everybody and what they think about leadership or what are some tips and tricks that they had too. There you go, do epic shit, peace out.